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nitronate33

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this is like watching liberals argue with republicans. it goes nowhere, cause everyone is already set in stone with how they feel.

i would argue that many more consumers dislike the practice of ADM and refuse to pay it. sure, there are a few (and they seem to mostly be on this thread) that are willing to pay it and think that the practice is completely acceptable.

personally, i think the dealers are short-sighted. i have seen this time and time again, they always gamble with high mark-ups and those mark-ups never go up, they always come down and typically level out to sticker or just a bit under/over. remember, we are talking about a mass-produced trim package. it's not "special" or "rare" in any sense.

for me, it's the fact that ford practices this ADM garbage the most in my experience. i can get a z06 or a gt-r or one of many other specialty vehicles at sticker or much less. are they less "special" because of it? no, it's because ford dealers are the worst.
 

Stingray23

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this is like watching liberals argue with republicans. it goes nowhere, cause everyone is already set in stone with how they feel.

i would argue that many more consumers dislike the practice of ADM and refuse to pay it. sure, there are a few (and they seem to mostly be on this thread) that are willing to pay it and think that the practice is completely acceptable.

personally, i think the dealers are short-sighted. i have seen this time and time again, they always gamble with high mark-ups and those mark-ups never go up, they always come down and typically level out to sticker or just a bit under/over. remember, we are talking about a mass-produced trim package. it's not "special" or "rare" in any sense.

for me, it's the fact that ford practices this ADM garbage the most in my experience. i can get a z06 or a gt-r or one of many other specialty vehicles at sticker or much less. are they less "special" because of it? no, it's because ford dealers are the worst.



Been saying this for years. NOBODY does it worse then Ford. I dread the thought of going into a Ford dealer to talk prices.
 

smurfslayer

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Free markets and capitalism, if you don't like it, well either vote with your wallet (which you did) or move

There are lots of people paying $5-10K ADMs as I type, I know because I've been trying to sniper one off the lot at max $3K over, and easily 15 have been sold at full ask, 2 of these have been at 15K over

ok, and as I said, every person needs to evaluate what is a good deal for them.

It isn't gratuitous if others are very willing to pay it, the dealer isn't predatory

Hell, the ADMs are less than 10%, that's not even exorbitant

It isn’t gouging, profiteering or any of the overly dramatic words you use

You’re drifting here. I specifically said this is not gouging, which is a government term, but profiteering I quoted from dictionary.com.

We will just have to agree to disagree here.

It is making money, the American way, Raptors are in high demand and some/most people are willing to pay over sticker off the lot

We only have a subset of Raptor consumers represented here, it is difficult to form a standard from internet people. Surely, at least some are willing to pay over MSRP for the truck, that is not in dispute. I am saying that is not a good deal for me, and people should evaluate whether or not paying over MRSP is a good deal for them objectively.

This is what I said previously, not the partial quote you made.

"That’s not what I said, and your premise that somehow I/we “owe” any dealer this ADM is preposterous. We don’t owe ANY dealer anything over MSRP. We are not being compelled by Christ here, nobody is speaking in tongues this is just basic negotiating and deal making. Obviously, a “good deal” means different things to different people, and everyone’s criteria will be different as to whether or not a deal was ‘good’. That said, ADM essentially profiteering ( it is not price gouging, which is a whole different category of government defined behavior ). Profiteering is not in and of itself bad, amoral, unethical or evil, but it is bad for the consumer...

This dealer is simply taking advantage of lesser knowing consumers, as others prove here every, single day someone posts a “made my order at msrp” or “picked up my truck for msrp” thread. The fact that this dealer is neighbors and allegedly friends with the person posting this shows a pretty high level of contempt and disrespect for that relationship. I understand it’s a business, and I do not begrudge a business their profit, but I won’t be financially exploited in that manner and this whole discussion is fun and all, but the reality is that even if the Raptor sold at invoice, the dealer would still make a profit on the truck. MSRP is just several thousand dollars MORE profit. ADM is to profit what a 12 scoop, chocolate, caramel, snickers, M&M, Reeses Pieces, peanut butter sundae is to desserts. It’s profit overkill.

I would be wholly unconcerned about any relationship with someone trying to extract a gratuitous $10000.00 from me.

So, no, I will not - and did not- take a $hit trade deal and did not play the ADM game in the purchase of my Raptor. I drove about 80 minutes to get it, passing at least a dozen Ford dealers with incoming Raptors along the way all wanting ADM, but at least the money I spent went to something tangible I can use.​

Why does capitalism bother you? Because you're on the receiving end of it?

Does it bother you when people scalp tickets? Have you ever scalped a ticket?

I guarantee you practice it throughout your life, but don’t be a hypocrite and prevent others from doing the same - that's very un American

I think it was disingenuous and misleading of you to partially quote me and call me a hypocrite, and criticizing my comments as un-American. I in fact want folks to use their objectivity when making a Raptor purchase. Specifically, I was replying to someone who was seemingly rather exasperated indicating that even his neighbor - a dealer - was intending to charge him / her ADM - and a significant one. As you indicate, that is not exorbitant and I cannot argue that because it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to that. For you, that may well be true. to me, $10000 over is a bit on the steep side.
 

BajaFred

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However, if my neighbor were a dealer that I used many times and had a good relationship with told me I’d have to pay a(ny) ADM, we wouldn’t speak again. Ever. In fact, if he were dying in the street, I’d be hard pressed to render aid. But that’s just me, I can be a little bitter.

I'll go back to your original post

I've removed parts, not to alter the meaning, but to keep it succinct

Your local buddy dealer offers you $5K less on your trade than a stranger dealer an hour way. Which offer do you take?

You take the same offer we all do - we drive an hour for $5K - regardless of our "relationship" with the local shop

If you can't see the double standard, then I can't help you
 

smurfslayer

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Fred, you’re not trying to help me, you’re trying to pick an internet fight.
Your latest hypothetical is already in a previous post of mine.

I don’t get why you think I’m applying a double standard. I’m not. I’m simply stating that for me, someone who values our relationship that little as to attempt to exploit another 5k ( it’s down from 10k, but ok, same principle) of bare profit that I am not required to spend, and that I can better by simply applying a little consumer advocacy, this person is simply not a friend. They’re not even a reliable business acquaintance. I’d have more respect for a common mugger.

so look, we don’t agree, or really we do on more than probably either of us is willing to publicly admit but really, what difference does it make?

shop wisely. Thing with your head and not your heart before you give in to ADM. Used Raptors will be available in just a few short weeks to a few short months, ADM be damned. Nothing is non-negotiable, not even limited availability Raptors. Sure, people out there will pay over MSRP and if that’s their preference it’s their money, good on ‘em.
They don’t have to pay it but if they’re willing it’s completely up to them.
 

triharder21

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Hey all after spending the weekend harassing dealers trying my hand at game theory and blast emailing every dealership I could find an email for. Found a dealer to special order @ MSRP if you are interested he has 1 allocation left dealer is in TEXAS.
 

hamster

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Found MSRP deal in Kent Ohio. Fully loaded Ruby Red, but no graphics which seems rare and what I wanted. Almost pulled trigger, but decided to wait on my order.....might regret that. On Cars.com. Was Special Order someone changed mind on. 19 miles on odometer, Jan build, $69,015. If want sales persons name, then PM me.
 

Sasquatch77

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Found MSRP deal in Kent Ohio. Fully loaded Ruby Red, but no graphics which seems rare and what I wanted. Almost pulled trigger, but decided to wait on my order.....might regret that. On Cars.com. Was Special Order someone changed mind on. 19 miles on odometer, Jan build, $69,015. If want sales persons name, then PM me.[


Will be a good buy when reality hits very soon.
 

Bigbo076

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Found MSRP deal in Kent Ohio. Fully loaded Ruby Red, but no graphics which seems rare and what I wanted. Almost pulled trigger, but decided to wait on my order.....might regret that. On Cars.com. Was Special Order someone changed mind on. 19 miles on odometer, Jan build, $69,015. If want sales persons name, then PM me.[


Will be a good buy when reality hits very soon.

This guy...
 
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