The 2017 Eco-Boost vs V8 Bench Racing / Whining thread

[crash457]

My question stands. All else equal, how is the V6 more efficient than the V8? Please answer the question. Or **** off. Newb

I already answered your question.

Better fuel economy, horsepower and torque with less displacement. That is literally the definition of more efficient.

Understand I love V8s. Hell, I have a 1923 T Bucket with a SBC with a tunnel ram and two fours. It's total overkill and is nothing but inefficient. But then its also not a daily driver. I love the gen1 Raptors but I think the gen2 is the next logical step. Is the V8 dead? No. Is it an edangered species? You bet. There was a time when nearly everything on the road had a V8. Most could barely make 350hp and got less that 10MPG. We now see fuel injection and cylinder deactivation help V8s get almost twice these numbers. Is a V6 raptor for everyone? No, but look at what is happening everywhere in the automotive industry V12s replaced by V10s and V8s, V8s replaced by V6s and V6s replaced with I4s. The trend is to do more with less. I wouldn't exoect you to understand since you only want to make generic opinionated statements like V6s suck and enthusiasts don't like them. Facts are facts. This is where the automotive industry is headed, like it or not.


Sincerely,
Newb

 

[Truckzor]

It's pretty obvious from reading this thread that many people are just spouting off terminology and hoping they sound like they know what's up. From an engineer's standpoint, a lot of these guys sound straight up challenged and can hardly make an intelligent comparison between a V6 and an V8 beyond hp and torque. And even then, there's a helluva lot more science behind those numbers besides putting down the pedal and making the wheels turn.

Amen.

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------

I already answered your question.

Better fuel economy, horsepower and torque with less displacement. That is literally the definition of more efficient.

You missed the all else equal part

And "power per liter" is nothing but a marketing gimic. Always has been.

Understand I love V8s. Hell, I have a 1923 T Bucket with a SBC with a tunnel ram and two fours. It's total overkill and is nothing but inefficient. But then its also not a daily driver. I love the gen1 Raptors but I think the gen2 is the next logical step. Is the V8 dead? No. Is it an edangered species? You bet. There was a time when nearly everything on the road had a V8. Most could barely make 350hp and got less that 10MPG. We now see fuel injection and cylinder deactivation help V8s get almost twice these numbers. Is a V6 raptor for everyone? No, but look at what is happening everywhere in the automotive industry V12s replaced by V10s and V8s, V8s replaced by V6s and V6s replaced with I4s. The trend is to do more with less. I wouldn't exoect you to understand since you only want to make generic opinionated statements like V6s suck and enthusiasts don't like them. Facts are facts. This is where the automotive industry is headed, like it or not.


Sincerely,
Newb

I've stated more facts than you have. Fact.

List some V10 cars that went to V8s. Some V12s replaced by V10s, as well.

We first heard the V8 was dead FORTY YEARS AGO! Back then it was OPEC. Today you don't even have a reason. You're basically just a trained monkey.

I don't think there has ever been a time when more manufacturers were producing V8s. Germany, England, Japan, Italy, they've all got at least one.

My '99 LS1 Z28 could get 25+ miles per gallon with careful driving, btw. No cylinder deactivation. That's only a little less than I got in my '07 GTI. Guess which one was more fun to drive

You think I'm making generic opinionated statements but in reality you're just making false ones. Fact

 

[mahabali]

I love my 6.1 SRT8... Hell if I can find a way to keep it with the purchase of my 2017 Raptor I will... Same with my INLINE 6 M3.

BUT I am damn excited for this EB 2017.

 

[crash457]

Your ignorance is showing. V6 engines, unlike straight 6 engines (Ford used to make great ones), are INHERENTLY imbalanced. It's part of their design characteristic.

There is a difference between imbalanced and poorly balanced. The flat plane crank V8 in the GT350 is imbalanced as well. So is this mean it's poorly balanced and inferior to the standard Coyote?

Your ignorance is what is showing.

 

[Truckzor]

I love my 6.1 SRT8... Hell if I can find a way to keep it with the purchase of my 2017 Raptor I will... Same with my INLINE 6 M3.

BUT I am damn excited for this EB 2017.

That's great. I'm excited FOR YOU. It's a very cool truck overrall. Ford even incorporated a lot of the fixes/improvements that they learned about from watching this forum. And it shouldn't matter to you that your new truck has an engine that most people can't get excited about

PS - you're welcome for the lesson about your "wife's" car

Btw, did you order your Raptor yet?

There is a difference between imbalanced and poorly balanced. The flat plane crank V8 in the GT350 is imbalanced as well. So is this mean it's poorly balanced and inferior to the standard Coyote?

Your ignorance is what is showing.

Sure, there are ways to address the inherent imbalance such that it becomes balanced (via wasted energy). So what? It still sounds like absolute shit.

And I think the flat plane crank thing is overrated. They are torque-less wonders. They do sound cool, but I would choose the 5.0.

 

[SJRaptorG2]

My 2 cents

I owned a 86 Iroc, sounded awesome but definitely not a performance vehicle. Grand National and other turbo vehicle ruled the streets at that time. I got my ass kicked by a Conquest. I learned pretty fast that displacement means nothing in performance. I just want my vehicle to kick ass when I need it to.

The GEN1 was the best during its short time, and set a new standard. However because of the GEN1s, manufactures are building better off road pick-ups. Ford with the GEN2 has set this bar high and it will be a few years before any other pick-up manufacturer can say they have a competitor.

Unlike the GEN1, Ford did not just build and sell the GEN2. They could have and people would have still bought it. They actually invested lots of time and money to produce a vehicle that can actually do what people want it to do. I know I’m going to break some hearts, but SVT only built niche or novelty vehicles. They were fast and looked good but are not really true race quality performers. At the time Ford Racing was tasked with building true performance vehicles. Ford combined SVT and Ford Racing and created Ford Performance, then got to work to build the GEN2 and GT, true street and race vehicles. This is backed by the fact that ford put them into the Le Mans and Best in The Desert series (BTW, the GEN2 finished 95th out of about 350 race only contestants and only about 125 vehicle finished the race).

Yes, I probably did overpay for the GEN2 because I don’t want to wait, but I don’t care. I pay MSRP for most things all the time, no biggy. Also, when the next better pick-up comes along, I’ll buy that, and I don’t care if it’s a hybrid or full quite electric. As long as it will kick ass when I need it to.

 

[guernsej]

Ex-V10s: Audi S6, RS6, S8; BMW M5, M6; VW Touareg; every domestic truck and van that ever had a V10 option.

Ex-V12s: Audi Q7; many other V12 vehicles were dropped entirely with tangential replacements using V8s (Jaguar E-types to F-Types, multiple Mercedes AMG models, various Ferraris, etc)

To argue that vehicle manufacturers aren't generally transitioning from large displacement V8/10/12s towards boosted I4/V6/8s in an effort to meet CAFE standards is absurd.

 

[crash457]

You missed the all else equal part

And "power per liter" is nothing but a marketing gimic. Always has been.

Clearly you don't understand what more efficient means. All things are not equal. They are two different engines. Are suggesting that we hypothesis what would be if the v6 had two more cylinders and the same displacement, because thats just asinine.

 

[Dewserb]

But... But.... But.... The Ecoboost doesn't "sound badass" tho!

Good grief.....

 

[Truckzor]

Clearly you don't understand what more efficient means. All things are not equal. They are two different engines. Are suggesting that we hypothesis what would be if the v6 had two more cylinders and the same displacement, because thats just asinine.

Yes, they sure are two different engines. The argument was never that smaller displacement boosted engines couldn't make more power per liter. But so what? Is that efficient? What about physical engine size? What about engine weight? What about power per miles per gallon in the real world? Did you consider these measures of efficiency?

Is my suggestion really that asinine? How? What about an undersquare 4 liter ecoboost V8? Wouldn't that have MUCH more naturally aspirated torque? And need to rely less on boost? Could possibly have better real world fuel economy and more on boost power, IMO.

BMW M5 V10 to V8

F250 V10 to V8

VW Toureg V10 diesel to V6 diesel.

Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari are all investing in V8 and V10 models where they previously relied on V12s

Looks like you did manage to find a couple obscure examples. Congrats!

But Aston, Lambo, Mercedes, BMW, and Ferrari are all still producing V12s in their flagship models, aren't they?

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

I owned a 86 Iroc, sounded awesome but definitely not a performance vehicle. Grand National and other turbo vehicle ruled the streets at that time. I got my ass kicked by a Conquest. I learned pretty fast that displacement means nothing in performance. I just want my vehicle to kick ass when I need it to.

Bro, you bought an '86 IROC. Your opinion is officially invalid

The GEN1 was the best during its short time, and set a new standard. However because of the GEN1s, manufactures are building better off road pick-ups. Ford with the GEN2 has set this bar high and it will be a few years before any other pick-up manufacturer can say they have a competitor.

Do you know how many Gen 1 Raptors were built?

Who is building a legitimate competitor for the Gen 1? Please list specific examples.

Unlike the GEN1, Ford did not just build and sell the GEN2. They could have and people would have still bought it. They actually invested lots of time and money to produce a vehicle that can actually do what people want it to do. I know I’m going to break some hearts, but SVT only built niche or novelty vehicles. They were fast and looked good but are not really true race quality performers. At the time Ford Racing was tasked with building true performance vehicles. Ford combined SVT and Ford Racing and created Ford Performance, then got to work to build the GEN2 and GT, true street and race vehicles. This is backed by the fact that ford put them into the Le Mans and Best in The Desert series (BTW, the GEN2 finished 95th out of about 350 race only contestants and only about 125 vehicle finished the race).

Yes, I probably did overpay for the GEN2 because I don’t want to wait, but I don’t care. I pay MSRP for most things all the time, no biggy. Also, when the next better pick-up comes along, I’ll buy that, and I don’t care if it’s a hybrid or full quite electric. As long as it will kick ass when I need it to.

This is literally the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. But hey, you owned an IROC, so it must come naturally

Google Born in Baja, bro

Also, you are far from the only guy to have paid MSRP+ on a Raptor. People have been doing it for almost 8 years now