2021 Raptor 98 Miles Blown Turbo

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melvimbe

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If dirty fuel injectors were a big problem and caused lose in performance, wouldn't vendors selling performance tunes and all that be pushing for cleaning or replacing injectors? I mean, if the HP gains they promise aren't met because of the fuel injectors, wouldn't they make sure it's well known?

I don't know, just trying to make sense of this.
 

smurfslayer

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FTO said: Injectors with 50% flow would have fuel trims off the the charts and system lean DTCs. Lean misfires as well

Your comment is completely false. A 50% flow injector would NOT have good fuel trim. It is simple geometry.

Didn’t you both say the same thing here?
 

FordTechOne

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Your comment is completely false. A 50% flow injector would NOT have good fuel trim. It is simple geometry. Please try to prove your point - I've seen the results (both volumetric and visual results on a GB Tester or other brand done to manufacturers specifications). If your comment is true, then why even have an injector? Your comments make no sense and are easily proven wrong. the Top (#1 Ford Raptor Dealer in the USA - R&S Ford Houston) recommends cleaning injectors as well as Hennessey and others do as well. I don't know about your specific fuel injectors but many have trash screens/baskets in them and they can become clogged easily. Also - here is a site that tells you how ethanol clogs - it is irrefutable that it happens (https://injectorrepair.com/ethanol-problem/). Ethanol is mildly acidic and hydrophobic. There are NUMEROUS studies and reports of how ethanol creates corrosion and plugging. You can disagree with me all you want to but why buy a premium vehicle like a Raptor and then not get the optimum hp and performance?
I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m simply stating from an engine performance diagnosis standpoint that it is not possible to have restricted injectors without have high positive fuel trims at minimum. Injectors with a 50% restriction, per your example, would be setting lean DTCs and misfire under high load or RPM. Are those the symptoms being experienced that lead to injector cleaning? Or are you saying that there is no observable symptoms, but that injectors are severely restricted?
 
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I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m simply stating from an engine performance diagnosis standpoint that it is not possible to have restricted injectors without have high positive fuel trims at minimum. Injectors with a 50% restriction, per your example, would be setting lean DTCs and misfire under high load or RPM. Are those the symptoms being experienced that lead to injector cleaning? Or are you saying that there is no observable symptoms, but that injectors are severely restricted?
Engine missing, dyno performance indicators, and drop in mpg are the best indicators. My main point is what is the use of having a turbo-charged high performance engine when you don't check the "choke point" (injectors). Any high performance engine maker will tell you that the injectors are the major factor in maintaining performance. This is why the Piezo injectors and others were developed in the first place. The "super-high performance" makes (BMW, MB, Lambo, etc) run Piezo injectors - there is a reason for it so that performance is maintained as long as possible. My main point is that it is 100% factually proven that ethanol will inhibit injectors - too many studies and real life examples that prove it (both from a chemistry and corrosion standpoint).
 
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Wait, wait, wait. Your data point is that a dealer recommends the service? And Hennessey? Like no dealer anywhere ever recommends unneeded service? And Hennessey is known to be completely honest and truthful? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I want to see something resembling evidence.
R&S Houston is very reputable whereas I know many are not. Your comment is fair. The chemistry and corrosion aspects of ethanol cannot be denied. I've given you a site to look at that explains it in the previous thread and there are numerous real life examples. The chemistry is really simple - ethanol causes phase separation and is hydrophobic (I hate big words but it is simply water separating) and is a good way to induce corrosion (and plugging of the injectors). You don't have to believe me but then why would the ultra-high performance companies (Lambo, MB, BMW) all use Piezo injectors vs conventional top feed or side feed injectors? They are not easy to use/install and more costly. The evidence is really clear - people just don't talk about it. The only reason I mentioned Hennessey is that they know that a sub-performance injector will really degrade performance.
 
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FTO said: Injectors with 50% flow would have fuel trims off the the charts and system lean DTCs. Lean misfires as well



Didn’t you both say the same thing here?
Somewhat - the only difference is that FORDTECH says ethanol does not create plugging and corrosion whereas I say the opposite. The previous thread has sites that show the irrefutable evidence of what ethanol does (corrosion and plugging). If it didn't then why would you ever have to replace an injector and why would performance ever decrease? Secondly - why would you need an injector in the first place - you'd just need a steel tube to direct the flow. The reasons are clear that spray pattern and volume lead to better and more efficient fuel burn for performance.
 

sammy134

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You are the 4th or 5th poster with a broken turbo fairly quickly. Welcome to the club.
 

AutoXRacer

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Having built several race supercharged motors making +700hp on pump gas, I have never had issues with clogged fuel injectors...

Clogged fuel injectors are a quality issue; contaminated fuel system and/or poor fuel.

The only thing I make sure with fuel injectors is to get them flow tested to make sure i have a matched set; verifies flow rate, duty cycle, flow pattern, and latency. I will say I have discovered inconsistencies in performance within injector sets.

But then again, this won't affect a OEM street vehicle. Comes into play when you're pushing the limits of a motor.

Yes I've seen dirty fuel injector filters on older vehicles... but it was a result of bad fuel, vehicle sitting stagnant for long periods of time, and lack of maintenance (I would say extreme cases of poor maintenance).

I don't buy the whole fuel injector cleaning unless the fuel system becomes compromised or has sat for a long time.

I agree with Ford Tech.
 

Proflyer

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This injector cleaning reminds me of something. It's VERY VERY important that we all change out the old air in our tires at least once a year. Let all the air out, fill the tires with ether, light the valve stem to ensure all the old air is burned out...refill with Hi-Tech Hennessey Nitrogen air, but be sure the molecular weight of the new air is the same. The best way to do that is to inhale a helium balloon and repeat in the mirror "I'm full of sheet" until the pitch changes back to normal. YMMV. :drink_nl:
 
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