KIDOR Lemon Law Denied and Suspension Warranty Cancelled

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

They probably can’t fix the damage he has caused by swapping said components back and forth under extreme stress. The burden shouldn’t be passed on to Ford any longer either. His offer is simply a “see even they can’t fix the problem” when they can’t even properly assess the damage given they can’t recreate the conditions when a different set of springs, tires, wheels with different offset (he broke at least one from driving so hard), different leafs, and who knows what else. Once some damage is done, it’s not like Ford can just replace the whole front end because he’s been such an upstanding and forthright customer. They may have been able to examine some of the problems had they been given the actual driving configuration, but they much better things to allocate their time, money, and resources into than someone’s personal modded truck.

Dealer actually did replace his whole front end at one point and problem was still there. He even had stock 35" tires on to see if problem went away but it didn't. Like I said i am not defending this guy because of the issue was there before he started to modify the truck he should've just kept on fixing it so he could have long paper trail. Instead of he went opposite and modified the truck.

 

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

Exactly. You do understand.



Maybe they're manning up and taking responsibility for changing the suspension. You not hearing about it means nothing unless you personally quiz every owner. Do you?



Somebody said that. I have no idea whether it's true. If it is, the guy is beyond stupid. He could do us all a service and sterilize his son before he reproduces and passes those genes on.



Well, putting it back to stock and replacing every component related to steering and front suspension, including the electronics, wiring, and connectors would probably fix it. I doubt that's what he has in mind.



Nothing to skip. Ford dealer is not Ford. Dealers scam FMC all the time. Many are dishonest scumbags. This dealer just got caught. Hopefully, FMC is whacking his ****** with a ruler as we speak.

Fox pretty much pioneered LiveValves for Ford. Dont tell me they didn't do their research and Testing before making 3.0 LiveValve Race Series and offering it as upgrade. You telling me that between this forum any other ones and Facebook groups probably thousand if not more people running either Eibachs, Geisers or Fox 3.0 Race Series and using it offroad not posting about steering issues? If springs would be an issue to steering problem we would hear many others by now my friend. Its simple math at tgis point taking into account how many people level their Raptor.

 

[GordoJay]

Fox pretty much pioneered LiveValves for Ford. Dont tell me they didn't do their research and Testing before making 3.0 LiveValve Race Series and offering it as upgrade. You telling me that between this forum any other ones and Facebook groups probably thousand if not more people running either Eibachs, Geisers or Fox 3.0 Race Series and using it offroad not posting about steering issues? If springs would be an issue to steering problem we would hear many others by now my friend. Its simple math at tgis point taking into account how many people level their Raptor.

You may be right that Julio's truck has a specific problem. I don't know. You don't know. No one will ever know because he modded a malfunctioning vehicle. It stopped being Ford's problem when he did that. That's why it was so stupid. Why are you wasting sympathy on someone who is barely smart enough to breathe? Yes, it sucks to be him. But it will always suck to be him. That's what happens when you have a room temperature IQ. I feel do sorry for him. Ford already went the extra mile for him. What else, exactly, do you think they should do? Why?

 

[Jakenbake]

Don’t know the guy personally, have watched some of his videos and don’t necessarily care for them. I am not defending him in any way, but I do have a question or two.

Waht is considered abuse on a truck marketed as a “high speed” off road vehicle? He doesn’t seem to be overly abusive to his truck when watching his videos, can’t speak to what he does off camera. I personally wouldn’t break into obstacles on purpose but accidents happen and you can’t always read terrain correctly. He doesn’t seem to be harder on his truck than anyone at events I attend, nor anyone I watch on legitimate runs on YouTube.

I also want to add that BJ Baldwin said he could destroy his trophy truck in about 10 minutes if he wanted to so driver ability, preference, etc does play into it, but what is considered actual abuse on a vehicle marketed as a “high speed” off road vehicle?

 

[GordoJay]

I also want to add that BJ Baldwin said he could destroy his trophy truck in about 10 minutes if he wanted to so driver ability, preference, etc does play into it, but what is considered actual abuse on a vehicle marketed as a “high speed” off road vehicle?

I'll take a swing at a definition. Abuse is when you exceed it's limits and damage it.

 

[FordTechOne]

So you are saying Fox who makes Raptors shocks by giving owners option to purchase their LiveValve Fox 3.0 Race Series which you can adjust 0-2" said: lets just put it on the market and see what happens? I dont hear about anyone running those having steering issues. How is lift of 1.75" achieved by Fox 3.0 different from 1.75" achieved by Eibach Springs? Also everyone seems to forget that this guy kept having front end issues even before modifying his truck. Also everyone seems to skip the part when he said he is willing to pay for the fix as long there is one. Also everyone seem to skip the part when he said Ford Dealer was well aware of his modification and he was returning it to stock thinking Ford will be doing Buy back. I dont agree with the guy how he went about the issue but lets not paint him as he wants to scam someone.

Fox aftermarket is not Ford OE; completely different entity. Ford engineering specs the shocks, Fox builds them. Fox is free to sell shocks in the aftermarket as they wish, that doesn't mean they meet Ford engineering standards or pass Ford OE testing. Your example is equivalent to saying if my factory fuel injectors are made by Bosch, and I bought aftermarket Bosch high flow injectors, I should have no issues because it's still Bosch. Doesn't work that way.

The guy claims he had "front end issues" before the mods; the guy is a liar. Nobody in their right mind has a warrantable issue, modifies it to make it worse, and then brings it in for warranty work. That's like saying you have an engine knock, so you installed a supercharger and then it got worse so you brought it in for service. Complete ********. The dude in question is a hack and has a history of buybacks, or at least attempted buybacks. Due to CA law, people like him are able to work the system, which enables him to modify and abuse vehicles and then request his money back at the expense of the manufacturer and every other consumer. It's calling gaming the system, and he's clearly profiting quite well from his videos. The dealer screwed up by ever touching his truck in the first place, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he's committed warranty fraud.

It's a plain and simple case of fraud; buy an expensive truck, modify and destroy it, bring it to the dealer multiple times claiming a defect, collect repair orders, and then request that the OE buy it back under CA "lemon" law. I hope he goes down with his own ship.

 

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

You may be right that Julio's truck has a specific problem. I don't know. You don't know. No one will ever know because he modded a malfunctioning vehicle. It stopped being Ford's problem when he did that. That's why it was so stupid. Why are you wasting sympathy on someone who is barely smart enough to breathe? Yes, it sucks to be him. But it will always suck to be him. That's what happens when you have a room temperature IQ. I feel do sorry for him. Ford already went the extra mile for him. What else, exactly, do you think they should do? Why?

I dont feel sorry for the guy. I stated this first
.. if he had a problem before modifying the truck why the hell he started to put mods on it instead of making trips to the dealer with stock vehicle. I just dont agree with FordTechOne that springs have anything to do with his issue. There is just to many Raptor owners that leveled their trucks in different ways. We would hear something about this at this point causing steering issues.

 

[Jakenbake]

I'll take a swing at a definition. Abuse is when you exceed it's limits and damage it.

Hit the nail on the head with that one. You might be my favorite EE.

How do we begin to define what is its limits and how can the public determine how hard to push?

 

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

Fox aftermarket is not Ford OE; completely different entity. Ford engineering specs the shocks, Fox builds them. Fox is free to sell shocks in the aftermarket as they wish, that doesn't mean they meet Ford engineering standards or pass Ford OE testing. Your example is equivalent to saying if my factory fuel injectors are made by Bosch, and I bought aftermarket Bosch high flow injectors, I should have no issues because it's still Bosch. Doesn't work that way.

The guy claims he had "front end issues" before the mods; the guy is a liar. Nobody in their right mind has a warrantable issue, modifies it to make it worse, and then brings it in for warranty work. That's like saying you have an engine knock, so you installed a supercharger and then it got worse so you brought it in for service. Complete ********. The dude in question is a hack and has a history of buybacks, or at least attempted buybacks. Due to CA law, people like him are able to work the system, which enables him to modify and abuse vehicles and then request his money back at the expense of the manufacturer and every other consumer. It's calling gaming the system, and he's clearly profiting quite well from his videos. The dealer screwed up by ever touching his truck in the first place, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he's committed warranty fraud.

It's a plain and simple case of fraud; buy an expensive truck, modify and destroy it, bring it to the dealer multiple times claiming a defect, collect repair orders, and then request that the OE buy it back under CA "lemon" law. I hope he goes down with his own ship.

Like I said I get what you are saying I just dont agree with you that Springs are causing steering issue. As I wrote before there is just to many people with Leveled Raptors one way or another that we wouldn't hear about leveling causing steering shake issue by now. Guessing by the number of people that leveled their trucks every 4th post would be about steering shake if springs would cause it.

 

[GordoJay]

I dont feel sorry for the guy. I stated this first
.. if he had a problem before modifying the truck why the hell he started to put mods on it instead of making trips to the dealer with stock vehicle. I just dont agree with FordTechOne that springs have anything to do with his issue. There is just to many Raptor owners that leveled their trucks in different ways. We would hear something about this at this point causing steering issues.

No one knows whether springs can cause the issue or not. It's possible. How likely is it? Who knows? Does some tolerance stack have to be just so for springs to cause it? Again, who knows? It's possible. That's why modding carries risk. Don't play if you can't afford to pay, because it's on you when you do that. Now, if you just did springs and you had the problem, would Ford fix it? Probably. Or they'd try. It would depend on the dealer, but Julio's seems to have been trying. Most dealers probably wouldn't notice that you had replaced the springs. But when you get engineers involved and the vehicle has that many mods and likely damage and then they find the YT channel, it's all over.