40k Mile Suspension Checkup: binding, a blown shock, and a bent frame

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mictouch

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Nice find


I'm NOT sure about the yellow Wiper Seal. The two FOX OE wiper seals cost more than this guys whole kit. What a deal if it is really a good reliable answer.

I'll have to order a kit and see for myself. All those parts from FOX and getting the one seal out of Viton is going to be $70 So, I must say this kit is a deal and I like the Viton o-ring upgrade. That is something I do as well.

I bet he charges $100 for shipping - ha ha
 

CineSLR

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FWIW I emailed them. They're a couple hours away from me and are willing to rebuild the shock with this kit while I wait for $110. I might just go for it, and see how it goes.

Looking forward to hearing how this goes! Is this something you could do in the field or would it be better to hobble home and do it in a shop?



I'm going to have to *strongly* disagree with this. You'd see a ton of F-150s failing if this were the case. This problem is essentially Raptor-specific because only Raptor owners would even consider subjecting their trucks to the challenges that can bend their frames.

Stating the Raptor's suspension is comparable to other models is a bit of a *reach* if you ask me. I'll agree that Raptors in general will be 1000x more likely to sustain dammage due to its abilities (and marketing) in less than ideal conditions, but things can be just as unpredictable on road as off. Admittedly not as often, but that can make those few and far between instances more dramatic and damaging. Remember a speed bump is the perfect model of what caused "Framegate" 2011. I'm by no means suggesting that every speed bump will bend your frame! :waytogo: But in the event you don't see it coming at all, how is it any different to hitting something off road? Concrete tends to be less forgiving than the natural stuff to begin with. Another thing to consider is that while off road your tires will be considerably aired down and a lot more forgiving.

Why would a Raptor be more susceptible to frame dammage than a regular F150?
Lets discuss what the goal is when designing a pre-runner style suspension setup. #1 Goal? Achieve as much usable travel as possible, right? How does one make travel more usable? An overall softer spring and shock setup. Not anything like the ones you will find on a run of the mill F150 ready to haul over 10k lbs (as I'm sure we are all well aware). Another way to view this acquired "softness" is axle freedom. This freedom is well received when trying to keep the tires in contact with the ground at speed over uneven terrain, but with freedom comes responsibility. The axle now has the ability to cary a lot more speed/inertia/force into anything in its path. In our case, that path is abruptly halted by some arguably underwhelming (given current tech) rubber knobs bolted directly to the bottom of the strongest available frame on a full size truck. Though its worth noting that the hole the created to acces said bump stop is not doing it any favors. We can sit here and debate the reasons why Ford decided to go this rote, but I'm not interested in doing that here and that conversation has already happend in other threads. What I'm more interested in, is just how sensitive is it? I'm not worried I'm going to "fail" my truck on a speed bump, but given the design I wouldn't be at all surprised if some tweaking could occur with not a lot of effort.

I'm no engineer, nor do I claim to be. This is 100% speculation and logic (or thats how its arranged in my head anyway). In reguards to your comment saying that a Raptor is as likely to bend its frame as a standard F150, a good test would be to take a standard F150 and see the maximum speed it can travel over a given speed bump before bottoming out the rear bump stops. Then do the same thing with a Raptor Scab and Screw. I know the factory Foxes are suppose to be progressive to an extent, I wonder how effective that is at the standard ride height in an urban setting? Anyone know the percentages for up vs down travel? They work beautifully when fully extended after flight, but when 1/2 to 3/4 of the travel isn't coming into play, it can be a completely different ball game. Another good test would be to throw a few hundred pounds in the bed and see what happens again. Nothing that wouldn't be out of the ordinary when hitting the dusty trail for a couple days.

For all the fanboys out there I am not in any way attacking Ford, or its engineers. :mwah1: I am only trying to understand/explore the limits of a vehicle that is new to me that I have come to adore. Any step closer we come to finding that magical line where we go from under to "over driving" is good for the entire community if you ask me...
 
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BIRDMAN

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can we find a better explanation than the "speed bump" analogy? a speed bump is going to bend your frame? really? let's pull back on the reins here.
 

Hockster

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Looking forward to hearing how this goes! Is this something you could do in the field or would it be better to hobble home and do it in a shop?





Stating the Raptor's suspension is comparable to other models is a bit of a *reach* if you ask me. I'll agree that Raptors in general will be 1000x more likely to sustain dammage due to its abilities (and marketing) in less than ideal conditions, but things can be just as unpredictable on road as off. Admittedly not as often, but that can make those few and far between instances more dramatic and damaging. Remember a speed bump is the perfect model of what caused "Framegate" 2011. I'm by no means suggesting that every speed bump will bend your frame! :waytogo: But in the event you don't see it coming at all, how is it any different to hitting something off road? Concrete tends to be less forgiving than the natural stuff to begin with. Another thing to consider is that while off road your tires will be considerably aired down and a lot more forgiving.

Why would a Raptor be more susceptible to frame dammage than a regular F150?
Lets discuss what the goal is when designing a pre-runner style suspension setup. #1 Goal? Achieve as much usable travel as possible, right? How does one make travel more usable? An overall softer spring and shock setup. Not anything like the ones you will find on a run of the mill F150 ready to haul over 10k lbs (as I'm sure we are all well aware). Another way to view this acquired "softness" is axle freedom. This freedom is well received when trying to keep the tires in contact with the ground at speed over uneven terrain, but with freedom comes responsibility. The axle now has the ability to cary a lot more speed/inertia/force into anything in its path. In our case, that path is abruptly halted by some arguably underwhelming (given current tech) rubber knobs bolted directly to the bottom of the strongest available frame on a full size truck. Though its worth noting that the hole the created to acces said bump stop is not doing it any favors. We can sit here and debate the reasons why Ford decided to go this rote, but I'm not interested in doing that here and that conversation has already happend in other threads. What I'm more interested in, is just how sensitive is it? I'm not worried I'm going to "fail" my truck on a speed bump, but given the design I wouldn't be at all surprised if some tweaking could occur with not a lot of effort.

I'm no engineer, nor do I claim to be. This is 100% speculation and logic (or thats how its arranged in my head anyway). In reguards to your comment saying that a Raptor is as likely to bend its frame as a standard F150, a good test would be to take a standard F150 and see the maximum speed it can travel over a given speed bump before bottoming out the rear bump stops. Then do the same thing with a Raptor Scab and Screw. I know the factory Foxes are suppose to be progressive to an extent, I wonder how effective that is at the standard ride height in an urban setting? Anyone know the percentages for up vs down travel? They work beautifully when fully extended after flight, but when 1/2 to 3/4 of the travel isn't coming into play, it can be a completely different ball game. Another good test would be to throw a few hundred pounds in the bed and see what happens again. Nothing that wouldn't be out of the ordinary when hitting the dusty trail for a couple days.

For all the fanboys out there I am not in any way attacking Ford, or its engineers. :mwah1: I am only trying to understand/explore the limits of a vehicle that is new to me that I have come to adore. Any step closer we come to finding that magical line where we go from under to "over driving" is good for the entire community if you ask me...

I started driving at 11, my dad started at 9... he wanted me to be able to drive while he was drunk so, I had around 30k miles driving before I got my licence at 16, since that time (I am now 55)I have never hit a speed bump at 20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90mph well you where I am going with this... As I have stated before, I have overloaded this truck 8 or 9 times and while overloaded drove 800 miles each time and I have not damaged the Raptor yet...
The line in your post I have made red is 50% off... The spring is weaker, but the shock in way stronger...
 
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BigJ

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Hey guys, 'stoner took a couple quick pics of both our bumps stops:

Here are mine; these came off right at 40k miles
bigjsbumps.jpg

Here are his; I believe these came off around 50k?
bstonersbumps.jpg

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------

Looking forward to hearing how this goes! Is this something you could do in the field or would it be better to hobble home and do it in a shop?
I'm not qualified to answer that with 100% confidence. But given some limited experience watching the process, I would say if you're in a dust free environment, are able to clean parts well enough and keep them clean, I don't see why it couldn't be done in the field. That assumes you've got the proper tools on hand. Having said all that, I'd hobble home and hand it off to an expert.

I might take those eBay guys up on their offer, but another offer has come up that might help us all learn even more. I might go that route too. Not sure yet. I'll keep ya'll posted for sure.
 

bstoner59

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They look more bent in person.

I suggest everyone get under their truck just before warranty expires and check those rear shocks. There isn't a boot on them and dust is building up and getting past the dust seal causing them to leak. They are replaced without question within warranty but not after. You can see the dirt buildup at the base if its leaking but it requires getting all the way under the truck.

I see "3.0" in your future J ;)
 

ISFast

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J, I checked under the truck last week and saw nothing on my front end with problems. No boots or oil leaks from anything. Looks like i'm in the clear. I went to the dealer and they wanted 50 bucks per shock hat. Do you got a good place to get them at the 30 you were saying before?

Sorry it took me a while I wrecked a dirt bike through a barbed wire fence.... Didn't break anything but sure got enough bruises to remember it for a few weeks.
 
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BigJ

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J, I checked under the truck last week and saw nothing on my front end with problems. No boots or oil leaks from anything. Looks like i'm in the clear. I went to the dealer and they wanted 50 bucks per shock hat. Do you got a good place to get them at the 30 you were saying before?
I don't have anywhere special, no. We just ordered from a local dealership who quoted us that pricing. I haven't actually paid the bill yet, so I'm not 100% sure they were only $30 after all was said and done. When I do, I'll be sure to update this.

Sorry it took me a while I wrecked a dirt bike through a barbed wire fence.... Didn't break anything but sure got enough bruises to remember it for a few weeks.
Damn man! Take it easy eh?? Glad to hear nothing was seriously damaged. I rode bikes for a brief minute, and learned real quick my pretzel for a back wasn't anywhere close to being able to handle the stress.
 

ISFast

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I don't have anywhere special, no. We just ordered from a local dealership who quoted us that pricing. I haven't actually paid the bill yet, so I'm not 100% sure they were only $30 after all was said and done. When I do, I'll be sure to update this.

Damn man! Take it easy eh?? Glad to hear nothing was seriously damaged. I rode bikes for a brief minute, and learned real quick my pretzel for a back wasn't anywhere close to being able to handle the stress.

Yeah let me know when you figure out on the price.

I'm pretty much lucky to be in one functioning piece. Had 3 T-post, a couple trees, a log, and the fence to hit plus the gravel road i ended up on after looking at the sky and ground multiple times before stopping. Broke my helmet and did all this about 45mph...ish. I'm one lucky SOB. Yeah pretty sure my 2 wheel days are over need all the help i can get with 4.
 
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