Why buy a Raptor??

[dabsdb]

"So you can put away your useful idiot idea. Instead, how's about saying "its just my opinion..."?"

Are you old enough to remember what happened in ~1973 & again ~ 1979 when gas prices went up 200-500% in under a year & you were lucky if you could find a station with gas?

It is my opinion that gas prices will reach $5-6/gal in the next 4 years (life of the average truck loan) & Raptors will be "under water" like home values today. So, am I useful idiot for buying a Raptor? No, because even if my opinion comes true, buying the Raptor accomplished something I needed & I can afford. A useful idiot will be the one that buys a Raptor, because they suspended common sense & reason to have an opinion that an increase in gas prices won't make the truck they "wanted" so expensive to drive, they can't drive it to work, much less off-road & still pay for what they need.


That is what distinguishes being a useful idiot, from opinion.

Likewise, when you talk about power being worth the loss in mpg when high speed off road performance is required, is that really an opinion or a fact? I don't think that is an opinion, that is fact, but that is my opinion.

One other thing "useful idiot" doesn't imply stupidity, it is only description of why people make bad decisions. It originated as a term used by Stalin to describe his countryman who supported him even as he was destroying them. An example for our times: Many smart people say "global warming is man made" based on consensus, not scientific proof & that makes it their opinion. But, when they push for more government control to solve the climate, that makes them useful idiots.

 

[dabsdb]

Go back to staring at crusty ******* all day plse.

I am sorry I didn't understand you. Please remove the **** from your mouth.

 

[BigJ]

"So you can put away your useful idiot idea. Instead, how's about saying "its just my opinion..."?"

Are you old enough to remember what happened in ~1973 & again ~ 1979 when gas prices went up 200-500% in under a year & you were lucky if you could find a station with gas?

No Sir. However I am a sort of student of history, so I am aware of it and its effects.

It is my opinion...

... that gas prices will reach $5-6/gal in the next 4 years (life of the average truck loan) & Raptors will be "under water" like home values today.

I'm not sure I follow you here. For your analogy to be applicable, we'd have to be talking about the price of electricity/natural gas to feed the home, not the home itself. Right? Assuming that's what you meant...

So, am I useful idiot for buying a Raptor? No, because even if my opinion comes true, buying the Raptor accomplished something I needed & I can afford. A useful idiot will be the one that buys a Raptor, because they suspended common sense & reason to have an opinion that an increase in gas prices won't make the truck they "wanted" so expensive to drive, they can't drive it to work, much less off-road & still pay for what they need.

Whoa. Someone who buys a Raptor because they "want" it is, presumably, using disposable income to buy it with. And that person is not going to be concerned with the price of gas, much like a Ferrari owner doesn't concern themselves with the price of gas (or repairs hah!)

If you're talking about the buyer who "needs" it, then MPG may be a factor, but I suggest there are far more important factors you're ignoring. I can explain them, but they really depend on 'who' the buyer is we're talking about here, and since I'm not clear who it is you're talking about, I won't guess.

Either way, lets presume your prediction comes true. Today a gallon of gas runs $4 in my neighborhood. That $4 will take the Raptor owner 11.5 miles, and the FX4 owner 16.9 miles (using your numbers which seem really really skewed in favor of the FX4, but for the sake of argument...). Or in other words, the FX4 owner can go around 38% further than the Raptor owner, or in other words the Raptor owner needs to spend around $5.50 to go the same distance. That's a difference of $1.50.

Now if I understand your argument, you're saying the Raptor owner is happy with that today, but they won't be four years from now when gas prices are at $6/gal. Do the math and that means the Raptor owner (four years from now) will spend around $8.30 to go the same distance the FX4 owner goes for $6. The Raptor owner spends $2.30 more.

Subtract that from the original $1.50 they were happy to pay and we get a difference of around 80cents per gallon. So if you're right, in 4 years the Raptor owner is spending something around $20 per fillup more than the FX4 and that $20 difference has put them "under water". That $20 makes them no longer want the truck, and it makes them regret when they suspended common sense to buy it in the first place. Really? $20 per fill up in your predicted 4 year future based on seemingly really skewed MPG numbers to start with anyway? I dunno. 4 years from now I'm sure a cup of coffee will run $10, so just skip it a few times a month and all is well in the world again, no?

In my opinion, your argument is no reason to choose one truck over the other and the math bares that out. In my opinion, that's really a silly argument to make. In my opinion, its worth taking a chance and/or ultimately spending that $20 to enjoy the Raptor for the next four years.

And even so, I'd be very surprised to find out that $20 more per fill up forced a Raptor owner to park it, whereas that same owner would still be driving if only they'd chosen an FX4 four years prior.

 

[JP7]

Lol I like your style BigJ - you have a gracious way of getting a point across yet diffusing a situation simultaneously..

Kinda lost me with the math lesson there, but I think the point is the "interpretation of the speculation" is that gas will be a little more expensive in 4 years and that might deter Raptor owners from driving or enjoying their trucks as much. And that now is a good time to by shares in Starbucks...

Not to fuel this fire, as this thread may be headed for the sloppy seconds - but its noteworthy that not many people stay at the same income rate for 4 continuous years. I know I've gone up 30k in the past 2 years and although I'm terrible at handling money (wine, women, fine cigars - the rest I just pissed away) - if we're speculating on the future then there can be countless factors to be considered.

BigJ you really nailed it with one of your comments about "in my opinion". Using that phrase, or as some of our more gracious members use IMHO (in my humble opinion) - makes all of the following text to be understood in a non-confrontational manner, and thus, better received by the readers and members who are posting and asking questions.
It's shit we all learned in kindergarten, and as George Carlin put it in 'Bill n Teds' - be excellent to one another.

/climbs down off soapbox again

 

[BigJ]

Thanks JP7.

Yeah the bottom line is on the math is if dab is right, in 4 years a Raptor owner will be spending $20 more per fill up, give or take, than an FX4 owner.

IMHO I don't think he's right. And, IMHO, even if he is, when that day comes and I have to spend $20 more, it will be worth it 'cause the next four years are gonna be glorious

 

[Humvee21]

Geeze these posts are getting too long for my attention span... But what I want to say here has already been said so no point in repeating it.

 

[Madcowranch]

Damn, Big J is once again the voice of reason.

 

[Big Green Machine]

Why don't we leave it as it stands now.. everyone has their opinions.. They're not wrong nor right.. Opinions by their very nature are personal.

Threads like this have their place. This website is a place where people can come and learn more about this truck and decide if it's right for them. I see this as the main purpose of sites like this.. A place for learning and discourse. Being able to read a discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of this vehicle as opposed to some other truck has value.

While I agree that I walked onto the Ford dealership lot with a single minded purpose of buying my Raptor, many may have doubts or questions. The refrain 'If you have to ask why, or justify purchasing a Raptor. Then the Raptor is not for you. Simple!' is tired and a gross oversimplification. I find it utterly amazing that someone would go into a purchase of a $50k truck and NOT question the purchase or justify it. Unless you're independently wealthy (of which there are a few here judging by the trucks! <---jealous) it's just prudent spending to think before making such a large purchase. To castigate someone for daring to question or analyze the purchase is close-minded and plain silly, especially when others visiting this site or reading the string may find value in the points discussed.

Obviously, most of the members here love the Raptor and think it's the bee's knees but if someone states a dissenting opinion they shouldn't be attacked for it.

In the eternal words of Rodney King.. 'Can't we all just get along?'

~BGM

 

[JP7]

Well met BGM!
I totally agree and bought mine off the showroom floor in less than 10 minutes. Although I must confess I had come there from a GM dealer where I wanted the 5 speed manual H3 that I 'constructed' on the internet but was refused by the salesman as he said it was impossible.
I also use my Raptor to ferry clients to meetings or jobsites and have found there's been some real positive effects for doing that (/devilishgrin).

Lets leave this as is - as there are no more posts to respond to. Hopefully Motor can find his way through other parts of this forum where many of us have posted our positive feedback about owning this vehicle. I've enjoyed beating on mine, and can't wait to trade up on a new one!

 

[dabsdb]

I hope my opinion is right that fuel only goes up to $5-6/gal & not the 400% increase I saw in 1979 during Jimmy Carter's presidency. I started med school with a wife & 3 of those 5 kids I put through college. Gas went from $0.39 to $1.65/gal ($12-15/gal today's $$). I couldn't give away my 1978 Chevy Suburban & was desperate to get out from underneath the payments.

As for the 2011 Raptor I just bought, I am guessing the kid had saved for a while to get the down payment to buy just what he wanted (been there, done that). Then 7 months later something changed. He needed my F350 & no payments more than his Raptor & $800/mo payment. The FX4 made it feasible to sell him my F350, since the FX4 had no problems doing the jobs I had been feeding $4.50/gal diesel to my F350 beast to do.

But I get what you are saying & totally agree the Raptor is definitely a 1 of a kind drive. Even if gas goes to $6/gal, to me it is still worth it. But if gas goes to $12/gal, like it is in parts of today's Europe, I don't know.... then it will be cutting into my hunting, fishing & other toy money, not to mention the grief I would get from "the boss." My Raptor would be spending a lot more time in its cage.

One other thing, you are absolutely right that modifying an FX4 to make it more like a Raptor is going to cost mileage. My FX4 has gone from ~ 18 mpg to 16.9 mpg at 1000 miles after putting on the Raptor wheels & tires. I have attached a picture of my odometer at 7749 miles or ~ 500 miles after adding the Raptor wheels & tires. I estimate final mpg will be in the in the low 16 mpg range, maybe high 15 overall, but Hwy only is still ~ 18.0-18.5 mpg at 70 mph. I don't know if this performance is typical of most FX4 5.0L. But I definitely would buy "new" if FMC put an EB 5.0L in a Raptor.