Value of our raptors after v8 debut

[Badgertits]

If you remove the turbos from the HOEB, how much power will it make on its own? Less then 300.... or even 250....???
Its not just the sound. Its the whole personality of the truck. If Toyota put a v8 in Prius, how would it feel? Actually here is what my common sense tells me, looking at the latest automotive industry trends, or standards, first thing they decided to do is make everything disposable, 1 year life, like they did in mobile phones. Secondly, every year comes a new model, or in increased hp number in cars case. So what they are doing is saving the v8 for later. So 1st Gen was 411 hp, 2 Gen is 450, 3rd Gen will be like 510 or 520, and that's it for the HOEB. That's pretty much the limit if they have to offer some little reliability and warranty, then they will start with a v8, 4th Gen 600 hp, supercharged or turbo, 5th gen 650 hp, u get the point. Look at whats happening with mustangs and dodge challengers, or iphones or laptops, now i hate this spec war, limiting the product life and reliability to a year. THIS WHOLE WAR IS ONLY BENEFITING THE MANUFACTURERS take your money without you even realising it. And folks these days, they don't think of products life in terms of 10 years or 20 years.

I sort of agree....except for the most part today’s engines/trannys are all good for 100k no problem, 150k more than likely (obviously there are lemons in the mix) - but constructing a truck entirely outta aluminum ain’t the best way to make it “disposable”- quite the opposite actually.


My point about the V8 “Raptor” type truck stands tho- unless you’re a ford fanboy, MOST people would agree given the choice between Ram/GM/Ford for an off-road halo pickup w/ a blown V8 - if all else is fairly equal in terms of amenities/suspension/looks- the majority would gravitate to the other 2 over Ford.

Dunno why this is tough to swallow.

 

[NORCAL SS]

Yeah long term reliability is still a question on the V6, but I don't see why it wouldn't be durable!

Is it really a question? The top threads here talk about cam phaser problems affecting all 3 model years of the ecoboost raptor.

 

[06viper]

Is it really a question? The top threads here talk about cam phaser problems affecting all 3 model years of the ecoboost raptor.

Yes i am very familiar with this don't worry, Ive had my cam phasers replaced on my Gen2. Doesn't mean the motor is a total POS though. Don't know if Ford will step up and make an upgraded phaser or find the solution why they are going bad in the first place, but that doesn't mean the other 99% of the motor is junk! Still a solid overall motor. And if the cam phaser problem is such an issue for someone, id recommend they go buy another truck and not a gen 2 raptor and make themselves happy! If someone has the money to buy a raptor, they can afford to pretty much buy any other model V8 Ford or another brand of truck they want haha.

 

[EricM]

Yeah long term reliability is still a question on the V6, but I don't see why it wouldn't be durable!

The entire turbo system is nothing but additional items to fail. A ton of plastic air piping/spring clamps/rubber joints, BOVs, wastegates, coolant lines, oil lines, the intercooler and the turbos themselves. If you think that's all going to go 200K+ miles without issues you are simply kidding yourself.

The x factor is the time it takes to get to 200K miles. A lot of what I talked about above is comprised of plastic or rubber. Time (and the associated road salts and ozone exposure, acids in the oil, extreme cold and heat cycles) is not kind to plastic, rubber, gaskets and seals. Springs fatigue, metal corrodes, rubber dries out, plastic gets brittle, etc.

Guys who put 40K highway miles a year on their trucks will take it to 200K in 5 years and proclaim the engines are super durable, but the exposure to the elements, the typically low load on the engine, very little idle time and low number of heat cycles is not the same as the typical owner who takes 15+ years to hit 200K.

 

[NORCAL SS]

Yes i am very familiar with this don't worry, Ive had my cam phasers replaced on my Gen2. Doesn't mean the motor is a total POS though. Don't know if Ford will step up and make an upgraded phaser or find the solution why they are going bad in the first place, but that doesn't mean the other 99% of the motor is junk! Still a solid overall motor. And if the cam phaser problem is such an issue for someone, id recommend they go buy another truck and not a gen 2 raptor and make themselves happy! If someone has the money to buy a raptor, they can afford to pretty much buy any other model V8 Ford or another brand of truck they want haha.

I am not even sure how to respond to that. You are saying there is a cam phaser problem, correct? And, you say that's a problem with Ford and the way they made the design. And, this is something that will continue.... And you are ok with it.

Why? You are ok with having the engine tore down multiple times to fix? At some point, it will be out of warranty and you will spend many thousands of dollars for the fix.

 

[jaz13]

Back to the original topic, pricing on the GT500 just came out. Base price in the $70s. After destination and gas guzzler, a stripped GT500 will be more than $80k. Add in some options and the MSRP clears $100k. And that is for a Mustang. No doubt the SC Raptor will be even more expensive. Will a $100k V8 Raptor affect the resale value of my 2-year-old Raptor that's worth something like $60k? Absolutely not.

 

[EricM]

After destination and gas guzzler, a stripped GT500 will be more than $80k.

Yeah? How much more than $80K is it?

Another major FRF accounting fail. Base model is just under 74K with the tax and delivery.

$70,300 + $1,095 + $2,600 = $73,995

Edit: Your "couple of options" include the ridiculously over priced $10,000 painted racing stripes and a $15,000 CF track pack option. You can get every other option available minus those two and still be right at $80K.

 

[Badgertits]

The entire turbo system is nothing but additional items to fail. A ton of plastic air piping/spring clamps/rubber joints, BOVs, wastegates, coolant lines, oil lines, the intercooler and the turbos themselves. If you think that's all going to go 200K+ miles without issues you are simply kidding yourself.

The x factor is the time it takes to get to 200K miles. A lot of what I talked about above is comprised of plastic or rubber. Time (and the associated road salts and ozone exposure, acids in the oil, extreme cold and heat cycles) is not kind to plastic, rubber, gaskets and seals. Springs fatigue, metal corrodes, rubber dries out, plastic gets brittle, etc.

Guys who put 40K highway miles a year on their trucks will take it to 200K in 5 years and proclaim the engines are super durable, but the exposure to the elements, the typically low load on the engine, very little idle time and low number of heat cycles is not the same as the typical owner who takes 15+ years to hit 200K.

Listen- I get what your saying, and used to subscribe to some
Of that- I love GM V8s & Hemi too- guess what though? They have unnecessary hardware that fails too, and more routinely. It is almost a given you’ll drop or stick the ****** AFM lifters in those V8s- and if you don’t catch it it can wipe out the cam & grenade the whole engine. So the grass is always greener on the other side.

When I was driving a modded G8 GT I used to poke fun @ my buddy w/ his 07 SHO cuz he made a bunch of power then kaboom! But these newer 3.5 EBs- especially the raptor HO version that has more in common w/ the GT engine than a regular F150 EB- is a different story. They’ve been proven

I’ve mentioned previously- what about the HO EB engines in police vehicles that idle w/ the AC cranked all day every day lugging around cops & 1200 lbs of gear- they run those into the ground & departments keep on ordering them.

So yeah, there’s that.

If GM was stuffing the ‘ol non-DOD/AFM LS3 into their trucks I probably wouldn’t be in a Raptor truth be told.

 

[EricM]

I wouldn't say the second gen 3.5L EB is "proven" in any sort of way yet. No, it's not a total POS, but I wouldn't consider it to be problem free by any means either. They usually do not get better with more miles and most second gen 3.5L EBs are all still low mileage vehicles.

As for the police car thing- from what I've seen and read, very few police cars got the first gen EB 3.5L turbo engines and the F150 they offer now is the only one are equipped with the Gen 2 3.5L EB. It's not the HO version though.

Feel free to show some stats proving otherwise, but most PIs were ordered with the standard 3.5L or 3.7L n/a V6. The EB equipped interceptors (Tauri) and utilities (Explorers) were considered to be too expensive, which is why so many places have Chargers now. It was cheap and fast. The EB were the fastest in the police tests, but they were the most expensive too.

Using GM and Fiat as examples of failure gives no excuse to a failure prone Ford engine. I buy Fords because they are better designed than GM or Fiat products. The DOD stuff is junk from both companies.

 

[Badgertits]

I wouldn't say the second gen 3.5L EB is "proven" in any sort of way yet. No, it's not a total POS, but I wouldn't consider it to be problem free by any means either. They usually do not get better with more miles and most second gen 3.5L EBs are all still low mileage vehicles.

As for the police car thing- from what I've seen and read, very few police cars got the first gen EB 3.5L turbo engines and the F150 they offer now is the only one are equipped with the Gen 2 3.5L EB. It's not the HO version though.

Feel free to show some stats proving otherwise, but most PIs were ordered with the standard 3.5L or 3.7L n/a V6. The EB equipped interceptors (Tauri) and utilities (Explorers) were considered to be too expensive, which is why so many places have Chargers now. It was cheap and fast. The EB were the fastest in the police tests, but they were the most expensive too.

Using GM and Fiat as examples of failure gives no excuse to a failure prone Ford engine. I buy Fords because they are better designed than GM or Fiat products. The DOD stuff is junk from both companies.

Yeah DoD sucks but Ford may use it to for then CAFE testing results.

I’m not sure what they use in your area but the MA state police & my local municipal dept made big deal about the new interceptor explorers being great- didn’t occur to me they were using non-EB models before.


Truth be told if I were running a police purchasing program I’d be using the Interceptor Exporers & GMs PPV which is essentially a stripped SS