The 2017 Eco-Boost vs V8 Bench Racing / Whining thread

[EricM]

Some of this might be true if you added boost to an engine not designed for it. When the entire drivetrain is engineered for boost it's a safe bet the engineers take in account boost/vacuum.

Engineers aren't perfect, material aren't perfect- nothing is. Therefore, the more complex it is, the more likely it is to fail. The more abuse the components have to endure, the more they will fail. A turbo engine by nature is very complex compared to a N/A engine. There is more crap to fail, and more crap will fail. Direct injection now? Even more.


The components in the TT3.5L engine have to endure higher pressures and stresses than the 6.2L engine. Yes, you can design around it- but it's nicer to not have to deal with high cylinder pressures when you want an engine to last a long time. 16 lbs of boost from the factory is a lot.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Engineers aren't perfect, material aren't perfect- nothing is. Therefore, the more complex it is, the more likely it is to fail. The more abuse the components have to endure, the more they will fail. A turbo engine by nature is very complex compared to a N/A engine. There is more crap to fail, and more crap will fail. Direct injection now? Even more.


The components in the TT3.5L engine have to endure higher pressures and stresses than the 6.2L engine. Yes, you can design around it- but it's nicer to not have to deal with high cylinder pressures when you want an engine to last a long time. 16 lbs of boost from the factory is a lot.

The **** we arnt perfect! Is management that causes us to take short cuts. Lol...



@Yukon Joe
Drive your raptor here!!!!
www.runraptorrun.com
( * Y * )

 

[SilverBolt]

Engineers aren't perfect, material aren't perfect- nothing is. Therefore, the more complex it is, the more likely it is to fail. The more abuse the components have to endure, the more they will fail. A turbo engine by nature is very complex compared to a N/A engine. There is more crap to fail, and more crap will fail. Direct injection now? Even more.


The components in the TT3.5L engine have to endure higher pressures and stresses than the 6.2L engine. Yes, you can design around it- but it's nicer to not have to deal with high cylinder pressures when you want an engine to last a long time. 16 lbs of boost from the factory is a lot.

Using this logic a diesel shouldn't make it off the lot.

 

[EricM]

Using this logic a diesel shouldn't make it off the lot.

Ever owned a turbo diesel? They are not cheap to maintain. The turbos do crap out. Cooling systems fail. EGR systems fail. Fuel systems and injectors fail. All of it is expensive to replace and typically a PITA to get to. There's a reason gas engines are in 3/4 of all the pickup trucks sold in this country. Gas engines are cheap, reliable, and relatively easy to work on. Throw turbos and direct injection on there and that's no longer the case.

 

[crash457]

Ever owned a turbo diesel? They are not cheap to maintain. The turbos do crap out. Cooling systems fail. EGR systems fail. Fuel systems and injectors fail. All of it is expensive to replace and typically a PITA to get to. There's a reason gas engines are in 3/4 of all the pickup trucks sold in this country. Gas engines are cheap, reliable, and relatively easy to work on. Throw turbos and direct injection on there and that's no longer the case.

I have 260k miles in my Duramax currently. Here are the engine components that have failed and need to be replaced:

water pump

That's it.

I don't know anyone who has had any of the issues you describe. My father and 12 close friends all have diesels with over 200K on them with no failures. 9 Duramax and 3 Cummins. I have one friend who had a 6.0 Powerstroke and that thing was a POS from day one. He sold it and bought a Duramax.

Point is diesels are reliable/ durable and can handle extreme conditions. (Ask any OTR truck driver). 3/4 of the light duty truck sold are gas because people are afraid of diesel (usually based on ignorance) or put off by the upfront cost to buy. there is a reason that 100% of OTR trucks, Medium duty trucks, and construction equipment is a diesel.

If turbos can't survive heat and dirt, explain any truck or piece of construction equipment found on any construction site.

They run non-stop, are positively filthy and aren't usually very well maintained, yet they keep running.

 

[FordFanStan]

Ever owned a turbo diesel? They are not cheap to maintain. The turbos do crap out. Cooling systems fail. EGR systems fail. Fuel systems and injectors fail. All of it is expensive to replace and typically a PITA to get to. There's a reason gas engines are in 3/4 of all the pickup trucks sold in this country. Gas engines are cheap, reliable, and relatively easy to work on. Throw turbos and direct injection on there and that's no longer the case.

Point is diesels are reliable/ durable and can handle extreme conditions. (Ask any OTR truck driver). 3/4 of the light duty truck sold are gas because people are afraid of diesel (usually based on ignorance) or put off by the upfront cost to buy. there is a reason that 100% of OTR trucks, Medium duty trucks, and construction equipment is a diesel.

If turbos can't survive heat and dirt, explain any truck or piece of construction equipment found on any construction site.

They run non-stop, are positively filthy and aren't usually very well maintained, yet they keep running.

I literally LOL'd when I read why he thinks 3/4 of pickups sold are gasoline fuel based. Some of the claims being made during these debates should become memes

In 2001/2002 when Ford redesigned their light duty 3/4 and 1 ton pickups and released the first mass produced intercooled and turbo'd diesel pickup it changed the way diesel pickups were seen forever. It was a huge craze and always will be now. Hell before that, not many people had ever driven or owned diesels pickups. Ford did amazing things, including some cons like creating such a trend and the diesel fuel prices raised approximately 3 times what they were (to what that of gasoline was).
However, diesels have been around quite a number of years, and have always been the chosen platform when longevity, reliability and torque have been of the main concern.

 

[bstoner59]

Has anyone seen the Ram TRX?!?!? Talk about a truck!!! Like the Ram Runner but even better!! And we all know the Ram Runner kicked the Gen 1's ass. The TRX is going to treat the Jennifer 2 like Bill treated White House interns.

 

[NASSTY]

Has anyone seen the Ram TRX?!?!? Talk about a truck!!! Like the Ram Runner but even better!! And we all know the Ram Runner kicked the Gen 1's ass. The TRX is going to treat the Jennifer 2 like Bill treated White House interns.

The Ram Runner was an aftermarket kit and the TRX is a concept that isn't for sale. Get back to us when Ram actually produces something that will compete with a Gen1 and Gen2 Raptor.

 

[_M_]

Has anyone seen the Ram TRX?!?!? Talk about a truck!!! Like the Ram Runner but even better!! And we all know the Ram Runner kicked the Gen 1's ass. The TRX is going to treat the Jennifer 2 like Bill treated White House interns.

Really? Every head to head I remember had the Raptor out on top. Almost every rag said the same thing. Raptor out performed it and comes straight from the factory like that.

If anyone thinks Dodge is going to put a truck together well, they are smoking something.


Here's the last TRX by the way...if you think Dodge is gonna flip to something like the concept...

 

[Ballistic]

I have 260k miles in my Duramax currently. Here are the engine components that have failed and need to be replaced:

water pump

That's it.

I don't know anyone who has had any of the issues you describe. My father and 12 close friends all have diesels with over 200K on them with no failures. 9 Duramax and 3 Cummins. I have one friend who had a 6.0 Powerstroke and that thing was a POS from day one. He sold it and bought a Duramax.

Point is diesels are reliable/ durable and can handle extreme conditions. (Ask any OTR truck driver). 3/4 of the light duty truck sold are gas because people are afraid of diesel (usually based on ignorance) or put off by the upfront cost to buy. there is a reason that 100% of OTR trucks, Medium duty trucks, and construction equipment is a diesel.

If turbos can't survive heat and dirt, explain any truck or piece of construction equipment found on any construction site.

They run non-stop, are positively filthy and aren't usually very well maintained, yet they keep running.

Vouch for construction sites, i have operated a few Turbo'd Cat Skid Steer for work, if you ever have operated a skid steer you know you get covered in dust and dirt. I have never seen my shower so black after being on a skid without a enclosed cab.