SVC Dual Fox 3.5" kit vs RPG BOLT front kit

[HAYNES OFFROAD]

Hmmm that's a handy bit of info to know. Respect to ya mon!

Indeed it is. Even if you have already upgraded to 3.0s, we would still have to have the 3.0 re-valved. If you dont, the ride would be so harsh from two shocks providing dampening power.

 

[Westside Offroad Group]

We will not speak on the SVC kit as we do not currently sell the product.

The RPG BOLT kit gives you 15.5 inches of proven wheel travel in a bolt on application.
It comes with:
Tie Rods
Upper Control Arms
Lower Control Arms
Spindle and Knuckle
Grade 8 Hardware

You can start with a single 3.0 coilover and add a 3.0 bypass and RCV axle when you choose, to add more dampening control and 4wd

http://www.wogoffroad.com/products/uca-1

 

[factive]

I believe the RPG kit adds 2-3" track width. So you would definitely need fenders as well. You'd also be running a different track width front & back. Something to consider. With that said, it does you give you additional travel over the SVC kit.

 

[RPG]

This can turn into a mud pit really fast..

Simply stated above by WOG..
The B.O.L.T. can be very easily upgraded… You don't need to buy the Secondary Shock, You don't need to buy the RCV's. You can still use the Stock Tires. There are may options to fit your budget.. Easy. If you want to take it in stages, we can help guide you. Its your truck, you can do whatever you want to it.

Tie Rods; If a customer already has RPG Tie Rods, we simply change the aluminum bar to a longer one. We still use all of the same M/A, Rod ends and Clevis.. We do change the lower M/A on the knuckle to accommodate a Double Shear Bolt. The Top M/A is retained.

Front 2.5" Coil Overs; Our kit DOESNT accommodate a Factory 2.5" (The units can not be easily revalved to a customers liking, the Spring rate is too soft and has to be changed, doesn't have a DSC)

Front 3.0" Coil Springs; Our Kit does accommodate Fox 3.0, King and Icon Coil Overs. The Fox and King require Spring Changes, while the Icon doesn't. The Icon has a much stiffer spring then the Fox and King) The Additional spring rate is required for the additional control arm length. In the end, we are concerned about Wheel Rates… Longer Leverage arms require additional spring forces.

Front Valving; We revalve the Coil Overs to DISTRIBUTE the Loads to Both the Coil Over and Secondary External Bypass. Taking all of the control out of a Coil Over is an Unequal Distribution of Loads. If you have a tool in the tool box, use it.

We HIGHLY Recommend removing the Factory Knuckle ASAP in both the Stock and Gusseted Versions. We are seeing many issues with even the Gusseted Versions.. Its not safe to weld to the Knuckles… Thats not my opinion, thats simple mechanics and materials engineering.. Take my word for it or go take the classes….

Sorry if I have added to the Storm, but I promise you, I will not get into the mud pit.

Corey

 

[cups]

Thanks Corey. So if you don't get the longer RCV shafts, does RPG kit extend the width? In this scenario , could you get away without new fenders (assume 37 tires)?

 

[svc]

The majority of info on the thread between both kits seems to be fairly accurate. When it comes to our kits I will give you a little background info as to why we opted for more damping control vs a few extra inches of travel.

1st. Most of you have seen this video of our full package working in some very good size bumps, but if you haven't, it shows how balanced the vehicle is with only 12 inches of travel in the front end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shHtHY5v3MI.

This kit consist of our Fox 3.0 coil-over with Fox 3.5" bypass in the front. SVC UCA's, LCA and Alpha1 Steering Tie-rods. The rear consists of our Gen Two ABS kit which allows for over 1.5" of extra bump travel, plus the added droop travel of the longer 18" Fox 3.5" 5 tube bypass in the rear a Deaver + 3 setup.

The main thing that we focused on with our kit is drivability and suspension geometry vs. just trying to achieve a larger travel number which we easily could have done, we have the technology to do that.

Our main goal was quality vs quantity. First, we focused on making sure both shock are set in parallel with one another to achieve an almost identical motion ratio of the shocks. The benefit to having this is it allows for us to achieve much better results during the shock tuning process.

Second, leverage ratios. Because our system retains stock dimensions, there is no need to have to change spring rates to compensate for greater leverage ratios. Think of it this way. When you have to break a bolt loose, you get a longer breaker bar to put more leverage on the bolt to loosen it. Now in suspension, the same principals apply. If you keep your spring in the same location, but move the leverage of the tire further out, you then make it much easier for the tire to cycle through the bump travel zone because there is greater leverage on the spring. The only way to compensate for this, is to increase spring rate to get everything back in line which factors into more money spent on your end. With the SVC system, we retain the springs that were designed for the trucks geometry by the shock manufactures.

3rd, valving.

We leave the heavy damping lifting for the secondary 3.5" bypass. We are able to remove a good amount of valving out of the coil-over to help focus on both the high and low speed control on the shocks, yet we do not remove all the valving out of the C/O to help maintain a good balance for both shocks. With the addition of a secondary bypass such as the Fox 3.5" we have achieved amazing results. Many of our customers running the system will attest the ride is smooth and compliant and has zero issue keeping up with any mid travel system because of how well the front and rear of the truck are working together

The benefit of running a 3.5 bypass shock? When you increase shock diameter you are now increasing the oil volume of the shock. This allows for much better heat dissipation compared to smaller shocks, more control and in this case a larger reservoir for even more oil volume to control the excessive heat. Heat is the enemy of shocks, the better you control that, the better your shocks will work when properly tuned.

Keep in mind the following, the goal of a properly tuned front end is to allow the back end of the truck to work as good as possible as it is the primary driver of the wheels moving you forward. Adding more travel to the front end of a truck when the rear of the truck cant keep up is essentially nothing more than a false sense of security. Travel numbers have many variables. Take a modern day TT for example. Most have about 24 front and 32 rear, plus or minus a few inches depending on the builder. They don't put 32+ inches in the front because the truck would never be able to take full advantage of it. This same theory applies to our Raptors.

We have one of our 18" Long Travel setups on another truck and it is no faster than the other trucks running our dual setup with Gen 2 ABS in the exact same section as Mike P's truck in the video. The reason why, the back end of the truck isn't capable of making full use of the added 18's of travel up front. Both are leaf spring trucks, until you take care of that, no amount of front end travel is going to revolutionize your off road experience, and that is the primary reason we didn't offer a mid travel setup for the Raptor. The end results just don't outweigh the costs and headaches of adding more to the front. We don't experience cv issues with our setup, we keep caster the same and ultimately allow the truck to be extremely fast in the most logical of ways.

With regards to knuckles, our kit works with many of the aftermarket knuckles available and we have good working relationships with these companies to get one on your truck is you desire. With that said, we still haven't broke a stock knuckle so I'm not in the camp of it being some massive pandemic issue. Just keep off the brakes in the holes and you will most likely be fine.

Don't get me wrong, I love more travel, that is why my personal truck will have 18 up front and 25 rear. The rear of the truck will allow me take full advantage of the additional front travel numbers. I added width to the rear of the truck to match the front, and have everything set to compliment one another.

Anyway, now you know why we opted to go the route we did vs. a mid travel setup.

Jarrett

 

[RPG]

Apples vs. Apple Pie

The Dual Shock kit is a lot of Fun to drive. But there are a few BIG problems when keeping the Stock amount of wheel Travel… Your travel limitations are not the 3.0" vs 3.5" shocks, Its the CV's… A Factory CV can not live at 12" of travel… Simple

The Stock Knuckle and Geometry (due to the Knuckle) is OK at best.. Its a Ford Design that has HUGE Limitations… So Simply replacing the Knuckle with a Gusseted / Direct Replacement knuckle is, in my opinion, not addressing the problem… You have the "Technology" Figure it out.

Steering Knuckle Geometry IS the MOST important aspect drivability. Simple Example, With the Factory the steering wheel gets ripped out of your hands. With our BOLT Kit, you can drive very easily with one hand on the wheel.

Having driven both Kits, the difference is "that was fun" vs. " I have goose bumps"

Guys / Gals this is a difficult comparison of Apples to Apple Pie. Having eaten both, I prefer Apple Pie.

 

[Palerider]

Shots fired! Shots fired!

 

[Bulletnjm]

oh yea this is getting interesting, see how much you learn when everyone comes together in a friendly matter

 

[Palerider]

^^^what he said. Should we tag in a representative from Rogue Racing?