Full Race's "Gen 2.5" Raptor build

[full-race geoff]

those who are knowledgeable about the coyote world knows they too have weaknesses. The "1-2-3 punch" aka "3-2-1 engine build" is the hot recipe right now: Gen2 coyote heads, Gen3 coyote block, and Gen1 timing chain (thickest/strongest chain for coyotes). Driven by the reality that Gen3 coyote blocks are the strongest (not gen4) combined with Ford raising the price on Gen 2 bare blocks, shortblocks and longblocks.

My ocd brain realized the Gen2.5 EcoBoost 1-2-3 punch is more like: Gen3 block, timing components and crank pulley, Gen2 heads, Gen 1 oil system. We can build the Gen 3 shortblock with Gen 2 heads.. and hopefully the boundary gen1 modded oil pump. That would get us full gen3 timing components, gen3 bottom end, and retain the simple plug-and-play fuel systems engine swap that we get by keeping the gen2 heads and fueling setup. Would need to figure out an AC compressor solve. Slow going, although things are starting to fall into place.

 

[BigTaco]

Geoff,
Have you talked to anyone at Watson Engineering about an oil pan? They have one person that is an artist with this sort of thing. I’m not trying imply that you can do a great job as well, just sharing my thoughts.

Any details regarding the oil cooler you can share? Setrab ?

 

[soliyou]

I added a bit more info on the first page, will begin the chassis writeup tonite



Thanks for the message earlier - 2018 with 100K and original phasers/turbos sounds ripe for this list. Keep in mind I am not a valvetrain engineer (turbos are my thing), with that said here is my understanding and experience:

Timing Chain Guides and Tensioners: These are the critical pieces for reliability on a stock-ish truck. At a bare minimum these updated metal guides and new tensioners should be installed along with the phasers. I have seen the plastic Gen2 timing chain guides fail, with the tensioner piston pushing right through the plastic pad. Below is a photo with the arrow showing the "plastic pad" that the tensioner pushes on. the problem here is because this is made from plastic the tensioner can push through the slots on this guide-pad and cause failure. The metal gen3 part eliminates this possibility

Hey, Thank you so much for for posting this information. You are the first one on the internet to comment on how crappy the Gen 2 lifters are. I have been chasing lifter noise since 40k miles and decided to change them as I am doing the cam phasers now at 75K miles. Here is a video on how they sounded at 40K on snap throttle. Not sure if I am allowed to post links since this is my first post, but will try:

Anyways, I have two questions:
1- The new rocker fingers look significantly different than original ones, are they totally compatible with stock tune, or will need a tune after installation?
2- Why are you recommending only one Gen 3 tensioner and not both? is there an issue in using both Gen 2 tensioner with Gen 3 arms? I can see that the oil feed hole is slightly larger on the Gen 3 tensioner.

Again, thank you for these posts. Great help!!

 

[full-race geoff]

Today I sent boundary a couple oil pumps and an oem gen2/3 timing chain sprocket (powder metal)


Boundary makes these beautiful parts (coyote pictured here) in tool steel. I believe the oem part has a weakness where the key way situates near the valley of a tooth. I’ve seen them broken and the result is not good. Maybe it’s from someone using an impact gun on the crank pulley bolt I don’t know. tool steel gears and metal chain guides are going in my motor, not powder metal and plastic

Geoff,
Have you talked to anyone at Watson Engineering about an oil pan? They have one person that is an artist with this sort of thing. I’m not trying imply that you can do a great job as well, just sharing my thoughts.

Any details regarding the oil cooler you can share? Setrab ?

Thanks for the suggestion, have not spoken to anyone at Watson in years. I worked with them briefly on a focus rs project in 2016 and their work was excellent. If you have a contact for the oil pan I’d be happy to reach out

Setrab Cooler and Mocal thermostatic oil filter sandwich plate is how I prefer to run these systems. Full race has offered a cooler for the gen1 trucks for years and it’s been popular

1- The new rocker fingers look significantly different than original ones, are they totally compatible with stock tune, or will need a tune after installation?
2- Why are you recommending only one Gen 3 tensioner and not both? is there an issue in using both Gen 2 tensioner with Gen 3 arms? I can see that the oil feed hole is slightly larger on the Gen 3 tensioner.

Again, thank you for these posts. Great help!!

Hi, I’m glad this is benefitting others. Knowledge of 3.5L platforms remains sparse, only a couple engine builders or shops have taken the 3.5 seriously. I think that will change in the next couple of years

1. I see no reason why tuning would be required for the updated lifter/rocker. The motion ratio is the same. They are just actuating the valves as intended

2. Only one of the gen3 tensioners will fit on a gen 2 block.

This is part of the reason why buying a gen3 longblock new from ford and swapping cyl heads is the best way I’ve found to get all the gen 3 valvetrain benefits

 

[full-race geoff]

We are about to launch our Black Friday sale …. which basically means I’ll be MIA from this project for the next 2 weeks. If anyone is looking to save on a set of manifolds, turbos, intercooler or all four now is the time (Garrett price increase coming end of December)

In the meantime here’s a new video to keep you up to date - headgames testing my heads with my new SI valves on the flowbench

Slow going and baby steps as we get the core pieces in place to build a first class engine. Thank you everyone who’s commenting and posting for coming along on this journey

 

[mashtastic]

How are we going to tackle the 10R80?

 

[full-race geoff]

I am a believer in Raybestos friction: https://www.performanceracing.com/m...op-solution-increase-10r80-clutch-performance

Valve body and converter are TBD - leaning toward $uncoast. Not in a rush to tackle trans yet, plenty of time to figure out

 

[91Eunos]

+1 on the Raybestos steels and clutches; specifically, the gpz friction discs.

Documented in a couple other threads, but in addition to my cam phasers again, my trans is rapidly deteriorating too. Had the valve body replaced last year by Ford, but now believe they were just running out the clock on my warranty. It slips into neutral between gears now when cold, especially in and out of 2nd gear, and the shifts in almost every gear are getting harder and harder.

Better when warmed up, but yeah… it’s time.

I finally heard back from ATS up north of Dallas, but still don’t have a price for my rebuild yet. Gonna use Suncoast’s clutch pack, plus a new C/D/F drum with the new lip design…I’m 100% sure this is the root of my transmission issues.

May or may not do the torque convertor too…probably not necessary, but hell, “while I’m in there” right?

Still looking at Tier one out in Phoenix too…if ATS keeps dragging their feet on communications, I may just push the easy button with one of their higher spec complete transmissions.

Would also be a good excuse to swing by Full Race to grab some goodies too!