PMCS: Panoramic Sunroof

[smurfslayer]

yeah, a little Krytox goes a long way and will last a long time. Post track replacement, I requested my stealership lube the moon roof seals and they were all too happy to. Local stealership where I’m at now are like “sure, but it will be an extra cost, that stuff is expensive”. Since I have my own, I’ll save that cost and do it myself. (gentle reminder to self, it’s about time).

Great info thanks! I do have a question though? Mine works well with the exception of opening due to the tight fit. I hit the button and it tries to open but then I have to get out and give a push down then it opens! The felt is clean ,I greased the tracks with special ford grease but gets stuck. It will pop up no issue but down to open no dice with out pushing down. What am I doing wrong here? What do you put on the felt (edge of sunroof)

This almost sounds like the track might be bent. Has it had a failure previously, or did you hear the dreaded “pop” previously and it’s not given you trouble since?

 

[GordoJay]

It's good information and good that you're posting it here. I just think that the industry as a whole has done a rather poor job of getting that information to people who own sunroofs, and that's a shame.

If maintenance is required, it should be called out in the manual, no? And I do think that Ford did a poor job with the design. My wife's RDX had a sunroof. We opened it once when it was new and we opened it once when it was ten years old to make sure it still worked before we sold it. It worked fine. Having to lube it every three months? Constantly cleaning drain holes? Maybe Ford owners are used to things like that, but there are a lot of customers with higher expectations. Disappointing them is bad business.

 

[isis]

If maintenance is required, it should be called out in the manual, no? And I do think that Ford did a poor job with the design. My wife's RDX had a sunroof. We opened it once when it was new and we opened it once when it was ten years old to make sure it still worked before we sold it. It worked fine. Having to lube it every three months? Constantly cleaning drain holes? Maybe Ford owners are used to things like that, but there are a lot of customers with higher expectations. Disappointing them is bad business.

I’m on page with this. I get taking pride in your Halo Truck but this isn’t a Raptor sunroof. It’s an F150 one. It shouldn’t be this finicky.

I have a SCAB. No pano.

 

[FL4x4]

Good evening all,

PMCS (Preventive Maintenance Checks & Services) is important for every vehicle per OEM guidelines.

After a great deal of analysis, there is no flaw in the Ford Raptor panoramic sunroof design (which I love and works as smooth as a well cared for Swiss watch).

The failures, creaks, squeaks, etc., occur due to a lack of maintenance by the owner—yes the owner.

NOTE1: The pano could be engineered by Ford, GM, Toyota, Lexus, VW/Audi/Porsche, or Santa Claus Auto Corp—but if not maintained by the owner it is going to have issues—just like anything else that neglected. It is not the responsibility of an OEM to teach “pride in ownership”.

NOTE2: PMCS applies not only to vehicles, but to the human body. When systems fail, it’s in part due to the care provided over a lifetime—no warranty from the OEM manufacturer.

NOTE3: Regular cleaning of the drain tubes (my Raptor is garaged, so 1x yr works). If you keep your truck outdoors, especially if it lives under trees/sandy/dirty areas (I’d clean it at least 3-4x yr).

NOTE4: Ensure the lube you use meets Krytox specs—works well under heat/cold conditions (remember the sun heats the roof of our Raptors to 200F plus easily (hotter for darker vehicles) under direct sunlight—so the lubricant has to have the ability to cling/protect not evaporate under heat—while also being fluid/non binding when cold).

NOTE5: I PMCS with a white lithium based grease that does not attack plastics/rubber/synthetics. I do this with every family vehicle with a sunroof—and no failures. I also coat the seals with UV protectant—as they take a beating.

NOTE6: PMCS/Exercise the sunroof—and the rear sliding window as well.

The panoramic sunroof is a thing of beauty, but requires PMCS. If you maintain it—you’ll enjoy it.

If you don’t like PMCS, get a hardtop truck with no sunroof—but please don’t whine that Ford (or any OEM) created a “poor design.” Ford built a damn good pano.

I agree and disagree with this post pertaining to the Raptor's pano sunroof.

I have a 2019 Raptor and I am the only owner. I purchased it wanting the sunroof.
I also have a 2018 Volvo XC60 hybrid T8 Inscription which also has a pano sunroof. The Volvo sunroof is by far a much better sunroof. The Volvo sunscreen is whisper quiet when it operates. My Raptor's sunscreen is not. Ford says the noise the sunscreen makes while opening and closing is normal. Maybe it is for a Ford. Not to someone who knows better.

After six months of ownership, the Raptor sunroof failed after it opened. The plastic rail that pushes down the windscreen as the sunroof closes broke off on both the left and right rails. While the sunroof still functioned, a large piece of the plastic rail (circled in the attached pictures) had broken off. I don't accept that as normal or a damn good design.

I agree that ALL of the maintenance issues you raised about lubricating and taking care of the sunroof are valid and necessary to ensure proper and long term functionality of the sunroof.

I disagree that the Sunroof in my 2019 Raptor is "a damn good pano" and I do believe it is a poor, cheap design. It didn't even last 6 months from the factory.

In my opinion and experience based on owning another manufactures vehicle with a similar style sunroof, in this case Volvo, the sunroof in my 2019 Raptor is of subpar quality and performance to that of my 2018 Volvo pano sunroof.

Full Disclosure: I'm not a brand junky or Ford fanatic. This truck has never seen dirt nor been off road. I want to love my Raptor, but I know too much.

Attached are pictures of the broken plastic parts of one of the rails. Both rails had identically broken parts in the same places.

 

[smurfslayer]

I also have a 2018 Volvo XC60 hybrid T8 Inscription which also has a pano sunroof. The Volvo sunroof is by far a much better sunroof. The Volvo sunscreen is whisper quiet when it operates. My Raptor's sunscreen is not.

Just to channel @FordTechOne here , can you off road with your XC60 at 80+mph over terrain the Raptor considers washboard, but most other vehicles would be shedding control arms? Now, assuming you can, do you think the ‘much better’ sun roof mechanism will hold up to that punishment? I don’t particularly care for the track mechanism plastic parts either but I’ve yet to hear of a Raptor moon roof coming loose, falling out or spontaneously disassembling during off roading and while we have our share of mall crawling units here, we have some pretty serious users as well with the moonroof trucks.

I want to love my Raptor, but I know too much.

I hate to hear of a Raptor unloved. I’ll take it off your hands for $500.00

 

[KAH 24]

I agree and disagree with this post pertaining to the Raptor's pano sunroof.

I have a 2019 Raptor and I am the only owner. I purchased it wanting the sunroof.
I also have a 2018 Volvo XC60 hybrid T8 Inscription which also has a pano sunroof. The Volvo sunroof is by far a much better sunroof. The Volvo sunscreen is whisper quiet when it operates. My Raptor's sunscreen is not. Ford says the noise the sunscreen makes while opening and closing is normal. Maybe it is for a Ford. Not to someone who knows better.

After six months of ownership, the Raptor sunroof failed after it opened. The plastic rail that pushes down the windscreen as the sunroof closes broke off on both the left and right rails. While the sunroof still functioned, a large piece of the plastic rail (circled in the attached pictures) had broken off. I don't accept that as normal or a damn good design.

I agree that ALL of the maintenance issues you raised about lubricating and taking care of the sunroof are valid and necessary to ensure proper and long term functionality of the sunroof.

I disagree that the Sunroof in my 2019 Raptor is "a damn good pano" and I do believe it is a poor, cheap design. It didn't even last 6 months from the factory.

In my opinion and experience based on owning another manufactures vehicle with a similar style sunroof, in this case Volvo, the sunroof in my 2019 Raptor is of subpar quality and performance to that of my 2018 Volvo pano sunroof.

Full Disclosure: I'm not a brand junky or Ford fanatic. This truck has never seen dirt nor been off road. I want to love my Raptor, but I know too much.

Attached are pictures of the broken plastic parts of one of the rails. Both rails had identically broken parts in the same places.

@FL4x4

Regret your sunroof broke and fortunately it will be fixed under OEM warranty since you drive a 2019.

NOTE: from an engineering/design perspective— you want the weakest link to be the plastic rail in the event of any obstruction/jamming of the panoramic glass roof. Why?

You don’t want the glass to be the weakest link. It is far less expensive to fix a plastic rail than a broken glass roof. Imagine if that rail was made of metal or an extremely strong composite that would not snap under stress—and forces were channeled into the large glass roof instead. Ouch.

Several years ago, we had a OEM glass roof design utilizing strong metal rails. Every so often, we’d have glass roofs crack/shatter due to obstruction (ie a kid putting something in the mechanism, or simply due to something freezing up the mechanism (and the rail was stronger than the glass). Needless to say—the engineers changed to plastic for the next model year (which also slides more easily than metal).

 

[FordTechOne]

I agree and disagree with this post pertaining to the Raptor's pano sunroof.

I have a 2019 Raptor and I am the only owner. I purchased it wanting the sunroof.
I also have a 2018 Volvo XC60 hybrid T8 Inscription which also has a pano sunroof. The Volvo sunroof is by far a much better sunroof. The Volvo sunscreen is whisper quiet when it operates. My Raptor's sunscreen is not. Ford says the noise the sunscreen makes while opening and closing is normal. Maybe it is for a Ford. Not to someone who knows better.

After six months of ownership, the Raptor sunroof failed after it opened. The plastic rail that pushes down the windscreen as the sunroof closes broke off on both the left and right rails. While the sunroof still functioned, a large piece of the plastic rail (circled in the attached pictures) had broken off. I don't accept that as normal or a damn good design.

I agree that ALL of the maintenance issues you raised about lubricating and taking care of the sunroof are valid and necessary to ensure proper and long term functionality of the sunroof.

I disagree that the Sunroof in my 2019 Raptor is "a damn good pano" and I do believe it is a poor, cheap design. It didn't even last 6 months from the factory.

In my opinion and experience based on owning another manufactures vehicle with a similar style sunroof, in this case Volvo, the sunroof in my 2019 Raptor is of subpar quality and performance to that of my 2018 Volvo pano sunroof.

Full Disclosure: I'm not a brand junky or Ford fanatic. This truck has never seen dirt nor been off road. I want to love my Raptor, but I know too much.

Attached are pictures of the broken plastic parts of one of the rails. Both rails had identically broken parts in the same places.

As KAH said, there always needs to be a weak link, and it’s better for it to be a linkage than a large piece of glass.

The original plastic rails are more than adequate to handle the weight of the glass, but when the seals stick it overloads the brackets.

Ford redesigned the brackets to eliminate the issue and released a corresponding TSB. Many manufacturers will just replace the part with the same one until it’s out of warranty and it becomes the customer’s problem.

 

[melvimbe]

The original plastic rails are more than adequate to handle the weight of the glass, but when the seals stick it overloads the brackets.

Would it be possible so that the motor doesn't have enough force to break the brackets? I'm guessing perhaps that's difficult to determine, if the vehicle is on an incline and the force of gravity comes into play.

 

[FordTechOne]

Would it be possible so that the motor doesn't have enough force to break the brackets? I'm guessing perhaps that's difficult to determine, if the vehicle is on an incline and the force of gravity comes into play.

Weak motors result in slow operation and eventually motor failure.

I believe that KAH24 has more experience than I do in the intricacies of OEM engineering/design and failure analysis. He's providing the raw data, no filter. If you disagree, that's fine, but it doesn't change anything. The key point is to understand that the information provided is the industry standard, not something that a customer rep or owners manual is going to tell you.

 

[Oldfart]

This is why I went the custom order route this time around. When I bought my '19 I could not find one with the options I wanted but no sunroof.

That's what I did when I ordered my '20. I got everything but beadlocks, pano roof, and graphics. I already knew Rappy was going to make graphics for me, and that I was going to powder coat my OEM wheels.

FL4x4, funny you mentioned a Volvo, I was just thinking about mine while reading this. I have a '98 V70-R with a sunroof. I've never lubed it yet, I wasn't aware I needed to. It still works perfect.