Gibson black-ceramic (PN 69548-B)

[Bullishone]

Please explain how. Both the factory system and aftermarket are using a 2 in 2 out muffler and the same diameter pipes after the muffler. Any restriction is going to be before the muffler. Catback is going to be a sound mod only.

I don't work at Ford Performance, but higher grade mandrel bent tubing with less restrictions and more free flowing, less back pressure, especially on a turbo will always equate to more gains. Always.



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[nikhsub1]

A cat back would easily give you those numbers and more on a turbo.

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Nope.

Please explain how. Both the factory system and aftermarket are using a 2 in 2 out muffler and the same diameter pipes after the muffler. Any restriction is going to be before the muffler. Catback is going to be a sound mod only.

Exactly. Maybe minimal gains within margin of error of the dyno.

 

[Bullishone]

Never owned a turbo before I guess. I have, still do. Always get good gains from a quality exhaust.

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[Guy]

Nope.



Exactly. Maybe minimal gains within margin of error of the dyno.

I may end up purchasing this one... and so I'll give you all an honest opinion if I do.

I'd be happy with 5- 10 ponies even. Aside from a tune, it'll be the only other modification I do. (Exhaust). I won't go as far as taking apart the turbos for a new exhaust outlet or down pipes or anything. Too much invested. I'll be trading this one in 3 years on whatever ford makes that's better.

Guy

 

[SilverBolt]

I don't work at Ford Performance, but higher grade mandrel bent tubing with less restrictions and more free flowing, less back pressure, especially on a turbo will always equate to more gains. Always.



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Normally this would be true. With the Raptor however the tubing is the same diameter, same mandrel bends, and same routing. No gains. The routing required to clear the fuel tank, spare, etc limit the aftermarket to follow the exact same path as the factory.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VM2zX98vbk

 

[nikhsub1]

Never owned a turbo before I guess. I have, still do. Always get good gains from a quality exhaust.

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I have owned plenty of turbos, I have one now. Gains are not in the catbck section of the exhaust, the gains are in the downpipe. The downpipe has all the restrictions in it with the cats. If you have data of your good gains from your other cars, please share.

I may end up purchasing this one... and so I'll give you all an honest opinion if I do.

I'd be happy with 5- 10 ponies even. Aside from a tune, it'll be the only other modification I do. (Exhaust). I won't go as far as taking apart the turbos for a new exhaust outlet or down pipes or anything. Too much invested. I'll be trading this one in 3 years on whatever ford makes that's better.

Guy

FYI changing the downpipe does not mean taking the turbos apart, you are just changing the outlet pipe section.

 

[Bullishone]

You're right that there are gains with headers/downpipes ...But I'm 99% positive we will see gains with the Ford Performance exhaust just based on what I heard from friends at Ford. Let's see what it comes in at, I ordered one. I'm sure they will release Dino numbers.

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[Guy]

I'm hearing many sides to this argument.

I tend to agree that the gains will be small.

However... there is one thought lingering... ford wants to sell ford performance products. To appeal to the masses of raptor owners... they have to show more than a pretty sound... I would think.... so then you say.... well in terms of pure physics... how would it be possible for them to get more power out of a set of "aftermarket" pipes...

The path of the pipes are the same. The size and quality of construction the same... so what would be different?

What if the mufflers on the raptor are RESTRICTIVE. More so than the Down pipes and the cats.... let's assume for a moment that the mufflers are a choke point and if you replace the exhaust with free flowing mufflers you decrease back pressure and improve flow and performance...

Maybe ford had a target of 450 horsepower and had to come up with an exhaust note that appealed to the general consumer without ringing the ears... and did so at an expense of 20 horsepower...

Can someone verify that there is NO flow to be gained by changing all the mufflers after the cat? There is a lot of focus on the pipes... but none on the mufflers....


Guy

 

[SilverBolt]

I'm hearing many sides to this argument.

I tend to agree that the gains will be small.

However... there is one thought lingering... ford wants to sell ford performance products. To appeal to the masses of raptor owners... they have to show more than a pretty sound... I would think.... so then you say.... well in terms of pure physics... how would it be possible for them to get more power out of a set of "aftermarket" pipes...

The path of the pipes are the same. The size and quality of construction the same... so what would be different?

What if the mufflers on the raptor are RESTRICTIVE. More so than the Down pipes and the cats.... let's assume for a moment that the mufflers are a choke point and if you replace the exhaust with free flowing mufflers you decrease back pressure and improve flow and performance...

Maybe ford had a target of 450 horsepower and had to come up with an exhaust note that appealed to the general consumer without ringing the ears... and did so at an expense of 20 horsepower...

Can someone verify that there is NO flow to be gained by changing all the mufflers after the cat? There is a lot of focus on the pipes... but none on the mufflers....


Guy

Guy,
The smart money would be to replace the muffler only. Skip buying the pipes you already have. The Borla muffler from the Ford Performance kit runs about $150 in the Borla brand. The crazy bent tubing is where the expense is at.

 

[nikhsub1]

Can someone verify that there is NO flow to be gained by changing all the mufflers after the cat? There is a lot of focus on the pipes... but none on the mufflers....


Guy

Mufflers for turbo applications are best when they are the straight through design and not chambered. They have perforations in the pipe inside the muffler with fiberglass packing all around the pipe. This deadens noise while still being 'straight through'. Big V8's will sometimes use chambered mufflers which have little to no packing inside but use chambers to offset sound. These are NOT straight through designs and are no good for turbos.

I would bet anything Ford also knows this Downside of the perforated straight through design is they are generally a bit heavier. Bottom line is the less bends the better, the shortest amount of pipe the better and obviously the least restriction the better.