Full Race's "Gen 2.5" Raptor build

[full-race geoff]

Hello,

I need to replace my 2018 Raptor motor with 111k miles due to what appears to be a bad oil pump. I see you are very knowledgable about Gen2 and Gen3 motors. I am planning on getting a low milage used motor. Should I get a Gen 3? Does it matter what year. Are there any problems I will find going with the Gen 3? Also while the motor is out and before I put it in should I change anything like oil pan or anything else? Thank you in advance for your time.

Hi Ted - this sounds like an interesting one.

1, The year of the engine will matter - and it’s still a good idea to refresh it before installation. Generally the late 2020 will have updated phasers and rockers/lifters but not the metal guides

the gen 3 engine can physically bolt up to a gen 2 truck. Wiring, computer, and fuel lines as well as downpipe, wastegate and turbos are all going to be a challenge. What is your skill level? This is possible although not simple

2, where are you located and what are you experiencing to believe it’s a bad oil pump?

 

[Ted Judson]

I am in the metro-Detroit area (Bloomfield Hills).

Last fall I did the Cam phasers. I thought I did a decent job but maybe not. Even before I did the cam phasers occasionally when getting on it when the oil was a little low I would get the no oil pressure warning then just restart it and it was fine again. It did this every time the oil was a little low. It did it again last Saturday while pulling a camper. Dropped the camper off and it was fine after restarting it. I got the oil changed. 2 days later on the freeway it did it again. So I pulled off and restarted it and it went away for just 5 minutes then came back while idling. That was new and started to worry me. I Restarted it again and got back to work but it did it before I got there. Now when I restart it, it happens within minutes and it sounds like the cam phasers aren't getting oil and make other knocking noises but still runs. I believe I ran it without oil for too long.

I am pretty skilled but out of practice. I can get help also if I need it. Was just wondering the best route and what you would do. My cousin started looking and found a couple 2021 motors about 25-40k miles for $5-6.5K. He just did a quick look and just typed in that year.

 

[full-race geoff]

I am in the metro-Detroit area (Bloomfield Hills).

Last fall I did the Cam phasers. I thought I did a decent job but maybe not. Even before I did the cam phasers occasionally when getting on it when the oil was a little low I would get the no oil pressure warning then just restart it and it was fine again. It did this every time the oil was a little low. It did it again last Saturday while pulling a camper. Dropped the camper off and it was fine after restarting it. I got the oil changed. 2 days later on the freeway it did it again. So I pulled off and restarted it and it went away for just 5 minutes then came back while idling. That was new and started to worry me. I Restarted it again and got back to work but it did it before I got there. Now when I restart it, it happens within minutes and it sounds like the cam phasers aren't getting oil and make other knocking noises but still runs. I believe I ran it without oil for too long.

I am pretty skilled but out of practice. I can get help also if I need it. Was just wondering the best route and what you would do. My cousin started looking and found a couple 2021 motors about 25-40k miles for $5-6.5K. He just did a quick look and just typed in that year.

You are in the right place! There is so much incredible talent near you that it’s worth considering options. Ultimately - What do you want to do with the truck? Do you love it and want to keep it?

A gen 2 used engine with the updates listed on page 1 of this thread would be my recommendation. Simple, reliable, effective. It’s easy to tend to the updates before installing the engine

A Gen 3 engine swap would be a big undertaking and I can help put you in touch with experts/shops that may be able to assist

Either way - I’d be interested to tear down your crank/oil pump to see where the failure actually resides

 

[Ted Judson]

You are in the right place! There is so much incredible talent near you that it’s worth considering options. Ultimately - What do you want to do with the truck? Do you love it and want to keep it?

A gen 2 used engine with the updates listed on page 1 of this thread would be my recommendation. Simple, reliable, effective. It’s easy to tend to the updates before installing the engine

A Gen 3 engine swap would be a big undertaking and I can help put you in touch with experts/shops that may be able to assist

Either way - I’d be interested to tear down your crank/oil pump to see where the failure actually resides

I do like the truck and I doubt I would get much for it in this condition. I think I should go the GEN 2 route (Does it matter which 3.5? Raptor, Limited, or any other?) I will add a stage 2 tune kit while I am at it. Should I get one from Goosetuned? I will take the old one apart and try to find out what happened to it. Going the GEN 3 route sounds like it will cost a bunch more.

 

[Wfo]

I do like the truck and I doubt I would get much for it in this condition. I think I should go the GEN 2 route (Does it matter which 3.5? Raptor, Limited, or any other?) I will add a stage 2 tune kit while I am at it. Should I get one from Goosetuned? I will take the old one apart and try to find out what happened to it. Going the GEN 3 route sounds like it will cost a bunch more.

100% yes for @GooseTuned !!!!!!! Check out his YouTube channel, he is the best!!!!

 

[JCT]

Subscribed. Very curious to see if Geoff uses stock cams...

 

[Zeusmotorworks]

The question with Geoff might be better stated, will he END up with stock cams

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[full-race geoff]

Subscribed. Very curious to see if Geoff uses stock cams...

Cams need to happen. The Gen2 ecoboost cams are similar to coyote cams. If you can, post on kelford cams Instagram and Facebook asking for gen 2 raptor cams, I’ve been at it and if they see more interest hopefully we can get them to commit

1. The production ford gt cams are not meaningfully bigger than the f150 cams. And ford charges $6000 for 4, if you have a vin #

2. Valve springs + gen 3 metal chain guides/lifters/rockers are mandatory for a camshaft upgrade on any gen 2 engine

I do like the truck and I doubt I would get much for it in this condition. I think I should go the GEN 2 route (Does it matter which 3.5? Raptor, Limited, or any other?) I will add a stage 2 tune kit while I am at it. Should I get one from Goosetuned? I will take the old one apart and try to find out what happened to it. Going the GEN 3 route sounds like it will cost a bunch more.

I agree staying gen2 makes the most sense. If you are looking for a used engine I think the 2021 Lincoln Navigator is what I’d look for. Good chance it has many of the updated parts already (still confirm with the vin # before pulling the trigger)

You could even consider a new oem shortblock or longblock and apply the gen3 parts yourself. it’s a good opportunity to build a stout power plant.


Short Block 1
hl7z6009b
Ford
F150. With turbo. With high output engine. To 2/26/18. From 2/26/18.
$3,058.34

Note: non HO short black is about half the price yet extremely similar internally

Short Block 1
hl3z6009b
Ford
Expedition, Navigator. F150. With turbo. Without high output engine. From 2/26/18.
$1,729.01

Lastly - Goosetuned is excellent, we have many mutual satisfied customers - keep in mind he tunes Cobb only.

If you’re using hpt/SCT there are excellent options near you in Michigan like Greg banish (former oem calibrator, amazing with hpt)

 

[downforce137]

when you say gen3, do you mean gen3 ecoboost, or gen3 raptor?

 

[full-race geoff]

when you say gen3, do you mean gen3 ecoboost, or gen3 raptor?

If it’s chassis or suspension I’m referring to gen 3 raptor

If it’s engine - any 2021+ 3.5L is a gen 3 ecoboost and has the good internals