TheClaw
Active Member
Says will not work with stock water pump pulley...
Full Race's "Gen 2.5" Raptor build
- Thread starter full-race geoff
- Start date
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Which?
Hi
I have a 2018 gen 2 with a blown turbo. My truck gas 100K miles on it and the phaser have never been replaced. So, its going to receive what you listed. My questions are what are the advantages of the Coyote 5.0L rockers and lifters? And, does any body that you know of produce an after market oil pump? I'll be purchasing some Full Race products later this week.
Thanks for your time,
I have a 2018 gen 2 with a blown turbo. My truck gas 100K miles on it and the phaser have never been replaced. So, its going to receive what you listed. My questions are what are the advantages of the Coyote 5.0L rockers and lifters? And, does any body that you know of produce an after market oil pump? I'll be purchasing some Full Race products later this week.
Thanks for your time,
TheClaw
Active Member
I was referring to the ATI Super Damper
Ah, thx
Where did you see that it won't work with the stock water pump?
TheClaw
Active Member
#7???Yes definitely is a better unit - ATI makes a fantastic replacement:
View attachment 465126
I have a ton of engine and gen 3 chassis content to add - if anyone knows how to get more than 5 images per page Please lmk!
im one phone call from ordering one but want to make sure...
also torn between ordering sp-542 (m-12405-35t) or getting sp550, sp-594, ngk locally from autozone/orielly?
oem or aftermarket coils?
thatJeepguy
FRF Addict
Watch the vid he posted it explains all of that. twas great to watch.
full-race geoff
Active Member
I added a bit more info on the first page, will begin the chassis writeup tonite
Timing Chain Guides and Tensioners: These are the critical pieces for reliability on a stock-ish truck. At a bare minimum these updated metal guides and new tensioners should be installed along with the phasers. I have seen the plastic Gen2 timing chain guides fail, with the tensioner piston pushing right through the plastic pad. Below is a photo with the arrow showing the "plastic pad" that the tensioner pushes on. the problem here is because this is made from plastic the tensioner can push through the slots on this guide-pad and cause failure. The metal gen3 part eliminates this possibility
Lifters: Ford's Gen3 lifters are BL3Z part # (ecoboost and coyote both gen3) use an updated design with low friction coatings that do not stick over time. The Gen2 lifters are decent and generally trouble free - however they can fail and get sticky and eventually stuck down. Replacing only the lifters can help a high mileage motor feel more "snappy" or "sharp' during accel
Rockers: Ford's Gen3 rockers are also the BL3Z part # (ecoboost and coyote both gen3) are a 2.04 ration and do not fail. If a gen2 lifter gets stuck down it may wipe out the stamped steel rocker. In comparison, the forged Gen3 rockers appear to be extremely durable, can take a beating and generally will be fine
Oil Pump: Melling M490 is your only option for an aftermarket direct-fit oil pump. I'm planning to test this myself, they claim it has a stainless oil pump gerotor gear however I havent seen the OEM Gen 2 pumps break and don't know if Melling offers any advantage over the OEM ford part? aside from cost, I believe they are largerly identical <there are options for drysump oiling but that's beyond the scope of the builds on this forum>
note 1: if youre planning to make increased HP in the future the rocker/lifter upgrade is a great idea. And if in the future youre going all-in (like me) with a set of stiffer valve springs this becomes a necessity
note 2: If its an early 2018 with the plastic oil pan you may want to tackle that at the same time also
Thanks for the message earlier - 2018 with 100K and original phasers/turbos sounds ripe for this list. Keep in mind I am not a valvetrain engineer (turbos are my thing), with that said here is my understanding and experience:
Timing Chain Guides and Tensioners: These are the critical pieces for reliability on a stock-ish truck. At a bare minimum these updated metal guides and new tensioners should be installed along with the phasers. I have seen the plastic Gen2 timing chain guides fail, with the tensioner piston pushing right through the plastic pad. Below is a photo with the arrow showing the "plastic pad" that the tensioner pushes on. the problem here is because this is made from plastic the tensioner can push through the slots on this guide-pad and cause failure. The metal gen3 part eliminates this possibility
Lifters: Ford's Gen3 lifters are BL3Z part # (ecoboost and coyote both gen3) use an updated design with low friction coatings that do not stick over time. The Gen2 lifters are decent and generally trouble free - however they can fail and get sticky and eventually stuck down. Replacing only the lifters can help a high mileage motor feel more "snappy" or "sharp' during accel
Rockers: Ford's Gen3 rockers are also the BL3Z part # (ecoboost and coyote both gen3) are a 2.04 ration and do not fail. If a gen2 lifter gets stuck down it may wipe out the stamped steel rocker. In comparison, the forged Gen3 rockers appear to be extremely durable, can take a beating and generally will be fine
Oil Pump: Melling M490 is your only option for an aftermarket direct-fit oil pump. I'm planning to test this myself, they claim it has a stainless oil pump gerotor gear however I havent seen the OEM Gen 2 pumps break and don't know if Melling offers any advantage over the OEM ford part? aside from cost, I believe they are largerly identical <there are options for drysump oiling but that's beyond the scope of the builds on this forum>
note 1: if youre planning to make increased HP in the future the rocker/lifter upgrade is a great idea. And if in the future youre going all-in (like me) with a set of stiffer valve springs this becomes a necessity
note 2: If its an early 2018 with the plastic oil pan you may want to tackle that at the same time also
NGK ruthenium spark plugs with OEM coil packs is 100% the way to go. Gap to 0.026-0.028 and you will not worry about spark again. I realize spark plug threads are like "Which oil brand to use" so hopefully i dont get flamed (wont use any other plug in the ecoboost trucks we work with)
I believe at the bare minimum, going in for phasers should also include the gen3 timing chain components, ngk ruthenium spark plugs, full race coolant lines / turbo install kit and inconel studs. If its high mileage get an OEM harmonic balancer (the rubber cracks). if you'd like me to create a part # list for 'service replacement / reliability" only and not performance I can do that.
Thanks winfield - we can't wait to work on your gen 3 later this month
wow blast from the past!! thats awesome you've been into this for 2 decades. I think i sold my last honda in 2005 era, hard to believe its almost been 20 years. Still to this day the B and K cylinder heads are some of the most impressive production heads I've worked with. I got pretty heavily into RB26 and then evo's after that. The one project i may never sell is my frankensteined S14 / GT-R aka the R14
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Hi,
I have been enjoying reading this write up but I have I a few questions that I hope you can answer:
1. You mention the Melling M490, why not the Melling M390HV?
2. I didn't see in your list of parts any of the replacement P/Ns for the bolt. I was under the belief that some of these bolts such as the one for the Crank Pully was a torque to yield and only one time use?
Thanks,
Antonio
I have been enjoying reading this write up but I have I a few questions that I hope you can answer:
1. You mention the Melling M490, why not the Melling M390HV?
2. I didn't see in your list of parts any of the replacement P/Ns for the bolt. I was under the belief that some of these bolts such as the one for the Crank Pully was a torque to yield and only one time use?
Thanks,
Antonio
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