EXCLUSIVE: Whipple 2.9 for 6.2 info released

[executor485]

The vid is for sure a 5.4L that JDM did. The Cobra motors come with Manley H-Beam forged rods. Good quality parts good to at least 800hp. The 6.2L motors get the same crap rods that came in the Lightnings. They start life as a powdered metal combine with heat, epoxy, and pressure they make a rod. They are fine in stock applications but do not hold up well to boost. In the Lightning world the safe max WHP was about 450. Beyond that and you were flirting with disaster. The 6.2L has an advantage over the 5.4L that the rod length is shorter which improves the strength. I have little doubt that the 6.2 will be fine with low/modest boost. Until we have more boosted 6.2's on the street it will be tough to tell the threshold for the stock internals. My guess is 600whp will be pushing the limits. Just a guess.

Excellent. The exact information I was looking for. I have seen/read a lot of conflicting information (yay internets) that didnt quite add up.
Coming from turbo cars, I'm not a stranger to the boost game and upgrading internals, but all that information is from a Subaru world, quite a bit different modding an already boosted engine as opposed to throwing on a S/C on an NA engine.

I'm anxious to see some real world videos/results and some longevity testing. And thrilled that the video isnt of a 6.2, I was scared for a min.

 

[pirate air]

Reaaaaaallllllyyyyyyyy

Obviously true forged connecting rods are stronger than powdered forged rods, but I think people are over looking a few things. The GT500 engine has come equipped with powder rods since day one (that is a/the current supercharged mustang just in case people forgot). Although the rods are the first thing to let loose in those motors, we're looking in the realm of 725+whp. Pretty damn impressive for a stock engine imo. The 5.0 comes with powered rods. Anyone who's been watching the 5.0 Mustang unfold knows spirited owners are pushing those cars to the 9-10 sec et area on stock engines. 5.0 engine failures that do come along are piston related, not connecting rod. Because they're cheaper/lighter, powdered forged rods are popular among circle track claimer engines. Engines such as ones used in IMCA modified cars; high comp alcohol engines that make 600-700+ crank hp, that spin 7000~rpm. Guess what else uses powdered forged rods from Ford, the all mighty ecoboost, and the old 6.4 and new 6.7 diesel!. We all know how hard the aftermarket has pushed the 6.4....

The rods in the 6.2 have already surpassed what the last gen N/A mod motor rods could handle. Strangely enough, the 6.2 rods and Gt500 5.4 rods look so identical, in structure, color, grain, it makes me wonder if the 6.2 rod didn't come from the Gt500 5.4 rod design and mixture. How much will they actually hold who knows, but it wouldn't surprise if its more than what people are giving them credit for.

 

[ISFast]

Reaaaaaallllllyyyyyyyy

Obviously true forged connecting rods are stronger than powdered forged rods, but I think people are over looking a few things. The GT500 engine has come equipped with powder rods since day one (that is a/the current supercharged mustang just in case people forgot). Although the rods are the first thing to let loose in those motors, we're looking in the realm of 725+whp. Pretty damn impressive for a stock engine imo. The 5.0 comes with powered rods. Anyone who's been watching the 5.0 Mustang unfold knows spirited owners are pushing those cars to the 9-10 sec et area on stock engines. 5.0 engine failures that do come along are piston related, not connecting rod. Because they're cheaper/lighter, powdered forged rods are popular among circle track claimer engines. Engines such as ones used in IMCA modified cars; high comp alcohol engines that make 600-700+ crank hp, that spin 7000~rpm. Guess what else uses powdered forged rods from Ford, the all mighty ecoboost, and the old 6.4 and new 6.7 diesel!. We all know how hard the aftermarket has pushed the 6.4....

The rods in the 6.2 have already surpassed what the last gen N/A mod motor rods could handle. Strangely enough, the 6.2 rods and Gt500 5.4 rods look so identical, in structure, color, grain, it makes me wonder if the 6.2 rod didn't come from the Gt500 5.4 rod design and mixture. How much will they actually hold who knows, but it wouldn't surprise if its more than what people are giving them credit for.

What do you think will be the first failure in these trucks? For the full drive train?

 

[executor485]

I know in the subaru world, forged pistons and rods are a big deal for high power setups, but then you've got issues with cold starts and piston slap. That's one of the reasons I never went nuts on the boosting and huge power turbo setups. Depending on the quality of the pistons in the 6.2, the upper limit may be more than I'd even care to go. Even on stock tunes some stock subarus had issues with ringlands cracking and the like. More issues with throwing spinout bearings as well, but thats another story.

What shocks me is that even though all the components are made in the same way, they're far from equal. One person may get 650whp reliably, and the next cant even push 500 crank and something gives.

 

[executor485]

What do you think will be the first failure in these trucks? For the full drive train?

The iron block /lurk







My guess is the trans, it's going to be a bit of experimentation to get the shift points and pressures correct, it's not built for putting that much power to the ground. Sure it'll haul 11,300lbs, but it's not meant to rip the pavement off the ground.

 

[pirate air]

What do you think will be the first failure in these trucks? For the full drive train?

I really think it depends. Just swapping 4:11s to 4:88's gears is shifting a good bit of force from the trans to the axle shafts. That alone could be the reason for a trans to break in one truck but live in another, and vise versa with the axle shafts. I could easily see a Raptor under boost playin in the desert break a piston crown due to detonation from heat soaked. Owners are doing so many different things with these trucks its hard to say depending on the circumstance.

The iron block /lurk







My guess is the trans, it's going to be a bit of experimentation to get the shift points and pressures correct, it's not built for putting that much power to the ground. Sure it'll haul 11,300lbs, but it's not meant to rip the pavement off the ground.

Hah! You know the block's ready to play One of the few things Ford did great on the mod motors, build a block that laughed at 1200+hp.

 

[Squatting Dog]

The "weak" transfer case will be the first to go.. A nice hard launch in 4hi on pavement..

 

[K-9]

Reaaaaaallllllyyyyyyyy

Obviously true forged connecting rods are stronger than powdered forged rods, but I think people are over looking a few things. The GT500 engine has come equipped with powder rods since day one (that is a/the current supercharged mustang just in case people forgot). Although the rods are the first thing to let loose in those motors, we're looking in the realm of 725+whp. Pretty damn impressive for a stock engine imo. The 5.0 comes with powered rods. Anyone who's been watching the 5.0 Mustang unfold knows spirited owners are pushing those cars to the 9-10 sec et area on stock engines. 5.0 engine failures that do come along are piston related, not connecting rod. Because they're cheaper/lighter, powdered forged rods are popular among circle track claimer engines. Engines such as ones used in IMCA modified cars; high comp alcohol engines that make 600-700+ crank hp, that spin 7000~rpm. Guess what else uses powdered forged rods from Ford, the all mighty ecoboost, and the old 6.4 and new 6.7 diesel!. We all know how hard the aftermarket has pushed the 6.4....

The rods in the 6.2 have already surpassed what the last gen N/A mod motor rods could handle. Strangely enough, the 6.2 rods and Gt500 5.4 rods look so identical, in structure, color, grain, it makes me wonder if the 6.2 rod didn't come from the Gt500 5.4 rod design and mixture. How much will they actually hold who knows, but it wouldn't surprise if its more than what people are giving them credit for.

I have not seen a 6.2 rod/piston but here is one out of a GT500. My GT500 is running all stock internals and sitting at approx. 785 rwhp now so I do agree that the motor will hold plenty of power but I also agree that that just because 1 does won't mean they all can. The tune/timing, injectors/fuel pumps, etc. can all play a big role in what a certain set up will support along with other items that can fail causing detonation (everyone likes to throw out the KB BAP set up but mine has been flawless). Having been through A LOT of mods with the GT500 and driving around with way over the amount of power i need would make my question not as much how much peak HP does this support but how much is the right amount, usable, and that keeps the car fun to drive but easy to drive and dependable? I'm typically the first in line to say there is never enough HP but the raptor isn't a drag racer so I feel like a peak number is really not a valid argument as i'd rather see something that maintains that power over an hour or two of hard running....or at the very least highway driving then pop the truck on a dyno and see what gains we see on a hot humid summer day.

I would probably have this same arguement/concern on sticking an ecoboost into this car. While many will use it on highway only etc. i still think the raptor needs to be proven in the environment it was designed for.

 

[pirate air]

I have not seen a 6.2 rod/piston but here is one out of a GT500. My GT500 is running all stock internals and sitting at approx. 785 rwhp now so I do agree that the motor will hold plenty of power but I also agree that that just because 1 does won't mean they all can. The tune/timing, injectors/fuel pumps, etc. can all play a big role in what a certain set up will support along with other items that can fail causing detonation (everyone likes to throw out the KB BAP set up but mine has been flawless). Having been through A LOT of mods with the GT500 and driving around with way over the amount of power i need would make my question not as much how much peak HP does this support but how much is the right amount, usable, and that keeps the car fun to drive but easy to drive and dependable? I'm typically the first in line to say there is never enough HP but the raptor isn't a drag racer so I feel like a peak number is really not a valid argument as i'd rather see something that maintains that power over an hour or two of hard running....or at the very least highway driving then pop the truck on a dyno and see what gains we see on a hot humid summer day.

I would probably have this same arguement/concern on sticking an ecoboost into this car. While many will use it on highway only etc. i still think the raptor needs to be proven in the environment it was designed for.

I get what you're saying. My main point behind that post was to try and illustrate that although the powdered rod isn't the best, they're not all "crap" either; and all current boosted american Ford sold engines use powder metal rods (including the supercharged stang).

I know Ford put a lot of effort into powder rods the last few years because of their planned use in the eco motors. At one point (a few years ago and maybe still today) Ford had the latest technology on powder rods. I think its safe to say things have come along way since the early 2v 4.6 powdered rods that splintered at 400whp.


6.2


gt500 after a rough day lol

 

[executor485]

After a hard day, the GT500 rod only turned black... Thats not bad














































JK JK, yes I know. But actually, I'm very surprised that after a hard day the rod is only bent and not completely shattered. I've seen plenty of snapped rods and the block is toast.