Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Here’s another update:
I got into my new Raptor today (this one is built 10/2019, last one was 7/2019). I can only speak anecdotally and subjectively, but, the engine sounds and feels very different from that last one. Not sure how many of you have a chance of driving two new raptors within a month - but there are a few interesting differences between two theoretically identical vehicles:
- Engine idles much calmer (ie vibrations in cabin are much less perceivable than on the 7/2019 build)
- No rattling, ticking, knocking. The only audible thing is the wastegates and lifters.
- Electronics: It seems there must’ve been an update to the dash systems and internal component systems. While both the 7/2019 and 10/2019 had the same system software version, the beeping sounds (I.e. when first starting the engine) and other sounds are different (in pitch and volume). SYNC seems to be a bit smoother too.
- Interior materials: those grey brushed coverings for the air vents have become smoother.

i will keep you updated on other differences I notice.

 

[RGVRaptor]

I’m afraid I’ll need to take my 2017 with 45k miles in for the cam phaser issue very soon....

Question, I have an aftermarket FMIC and intake. What issues will these parts cause with the dealer completing the necessary repairs, if any? Reverting back to stock is not an option.

If they make a stink, I may just get rid of it for a 2020.

 

[Tr4ckD4ys]

I’m afraid I’ll need to take my 2017 with 45k miles in for the cam phaser issue very soon....

Question, I have an aftermarket FMIC and intake. What issues will these parts cause with the dealer completing the necessary repairs, if any? Reverting back to stock is not an option.

If they make a stink, I may just get rid of it for a 2020.

It depends on how well of a relationship you have established with the dealer. Ford can deny warranty claims even though those parts may not be related to the failure of others. While they’re legally not in a safe zone there, the jokes usually on the customer rather than them.
So it really depends on your dealer and how supportive they are - if they like you and want to fix it for you, they will know the ways to make sure it’s covered. It’s not a cheap repair either.
There’s no guarantee the 2020s are free of the cam phaser issue, but I haven’t heard of cases yet.

 

[FordTechOne]

That last one was a bad recording because the sounds are there but because the beginning of them is cut off it seems like it’s normal. Anyway - has it at the dealer today and they immediately got very worried - started talking about buyback programs. When I showed them the vids their first reaction was “f***** ecoboosts”. Technician said definitely seems to be something related to cam phasers and timing chains. My build date is end of July 2019. I guess those new cam phasers part numbers did not do the trick. What a nightmare this is...

Sounds like the technician and the dealership are not only unprofessional but very inexperienced. Why would they mention "buy back"? Ask them if they'd like to buy it back from you for full price paid, plus license & title fees, plus taxes, plus interest on their own dime. If not, they're in violation of their franchise agreement for not only failing to fulfill their responsibility of repairing the vehicle, but for recommending the customer get the vehicle repurchased from the manufacturer for an issue they are refusing to even attempt to address. Are they saying that they are incapable of repairing a warrantable issue per the warranty and policy manual? If that is their stance, than they should not be a Ford franchise, period.

As far as the noise, that does not sound like a cam phaser, but of course it's hard to decipher in a video. I would highly recommend that they (or you if necessary) observe the turbocharger wastegate electric motors while the concern occurs. When the vehicle is started, the PCM runs a self-test, which involves cycling the wastegates over their full range of travel. The issue could be as simple as a faulty wastegate actuator, which is very easy for a technician to repalce.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Sounds like the technician and the dealership are not only unprofessional but very inexperienced. Why would they mention "buy back"? Ask them if they'd like to buy it back from you for full price paid, plus license & title fees, plus taxes, plus interest on their own dime. If not, they're in violation of their franchise agreement for not only failing to fulfill their responsibility of repairing the vehicle, but for recommending the customer get the vehicle repurchased from the manufacturer for an issue they are refusing to even attempt to address. Are they saying that they are incapable of repairing a warrantable issue per the warranty and policy manual? If that is their stance, than they should not be a Ford franchise, period.

As far as the noise, that does not sound like a cam phaser, but of course it's hard to decipher in a video. I would highly recommend that they (or you if necessary) observe the turbocharger wastegate electric motors while the concern occurs. When the vehicle is started, the PCM runs a self-test, which involves cycling the wastegates over their full range of travel. The issue could be as simple as a faulty wastegate actuator, which is very easy for a technician to repalce.

Good advise right here. [emoji1690]


Setting new standards

 

[FordTechOne]

I’m afraid I’ll need to take my 2017 with 45k miles in for the cam phaser issue very soon....

Question, I have an aftermarket FMIC and intake. What issues will these parts cause with the dealer completing the necessary repairs, if any? Reverting back to stock is not an option.

If they make a stink, I may just get rid of it for a 2020.

An aftermarket intake and charge air cooler will not cause a camshaft phaser failure. Any dealer that tries to deny warranty on a cam phaser for those mods is clueless. Best to call around and find a dealer that has some common sense.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Common sense should be far more common. Just my
$.02


Setting new standards

 

[FordTechOne]

I must lead off with I have not read this whole thread.

I had a 2014 3.5 eco boost a few years ago and it has a similar sound on start up. I believe it was also attributed to the cam phasers. But someone mentioned oil passages in this thread. I think fordtechmakuloco (spelled correctly?) said that he was seeing that the passages were clogged with material from the break in procedure or something similar.

Gen 1's had one phaser/timing related issue - on early models (2011/2012) the phasers could, in certain circumstances, cause the timing chain to stretch. This results in timing chain noise on startup, as well as possible timing related DTCs. Any issue related to restricted oil passages is the result of a lack of maintenance (proper oil changes w/ quality oil).

Does the lack of oil pressure due to restricted oil passages seem to be the issue on the gen 2 eco boost or do people believe that the phaser itself is having issues? Would it be that lack of oil pressure after a few starts cause wear that makes them noisier? Typically will a swap of phasers eliminate the noise, even for just a while?

Just curious for my own knowledge.

Issue was isolated to the camshaft phasers themselves due to "parking" improperly. This is the reason that the service bulletin directs the technician to replace the cam phasers and update the PCM calibration for the new design, no other timing components require replacement.

 

[TwizzleStix]

Sounds like the technician and the dealership are not only unprofessional but very inexperienced...

...The issue could be as simple as a faulty wastegate actuator, which is very easy for a technician to repalce.

Both of these quotes are solid truth based on basic logic.

Dealer goons are expected to know the vehicles they’re responsible for, but the huge majority only know incorrect info or just tell the customer made-up crap to get them to go away.

Any late-model engine makes a plethora of sounds like rattles, clicks, clunks, etc. The Ecoboost family are notorious for a range of noises and the Raptor with 2 turbos, 2 electronic wastegates with heavy solenoids, not vacuum driven. They do indeed cycle a LOT on a cold start and make a lot of noise. There are high pressure injectors driven by 100+ VDC, cam driven high pressure fuel pump, cam driven vacuum pump(1.6 & 2.3L), etc. The Raptor wheel wells are open exposing the operator to these sounds directly rather than muffled like a car, so... just sayin’ don’t stress about the little sounds

 

[FullAuto]

Both of these quotes are solid truth based on basic logic.

Dealer goons are expected to know the vehicles they’re responsible for, but the huge majority only know incorrect info or just tell the customer made-up crap to get them to go away.

Any late-model engine makes a plethora of sounds like rattles, clicks, clunks, etc. The Ecoboost family are notorious for a range of noises and the Raptor with 2 turbos, 2 electronic wastegates with heavy solenoids, not vacuum driven. They do indeed cycle a LOT on a cold start and make a lot of noise. There are high pressure injectors driven by 100+ VDC, cam driven high pressure fuel pump, cam driven vacuum pump(1.6 & 2.3L), etc. The Raptor wheel wells are open exposing the operator to these sounds directly rather than muffled like a car, so... just sayin’ don’t stress about the little sounds

It seems all the wastegate noise these things make really freak people out. They tend to not think it's normal.