Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

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Tr4ckD4ys

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By the way guys, the Ford field engineer that looked at my vehicle yesterday knew nothing of a new TSB set to come out this year still. In fact he knew nothing of a TSB or SSM in relation to this other than what’s already out there.

My particular case is only indirectly on the cam phasers. They said the readings for those were unusual although a CEL didn’t come on yet (I also never WOT being it’s still in breaking in period). That’s why they said to replace them, however, the rattling sound on my engine is not the typical phaser rattle. That’s why they said it’s rather a VCT solenoid issue (why are the phaser readings off chart then?). Either way, the rattling is getting more intense by the day. These issues all seem inter-related and I somehow believe too that the design flaw doesn’t necessarily lie with the phasers alone, but maybe the oil passages in the ecoboosts are just not well designed.

Will do a new cold startup video today as well as a “warm” startup one. My solenoid noises are most noticeable when oil temp is around 90-140F on startup. Ticking is severe on cold startup too but it gets lost in the generally noisy cold startup of this engine. One thing you’re going to realize is the progression of the noises over time. I’ll post my original video first (1x noise at 2-3second length about 5 second after startup), second video already had two noises occur and last night after I got it back from dealer (yes, the field engineer said to keep driving it), it was just a loud, constant rattling for 10-15 seconds at warm startup. By the way it’s also super audible now inside the cab, when driving on normal roads. Ticking occurs on heavy acceleration but more so on foot off gas, when oil pressure comes down from 65psi towards 21psi. Noise goes away once engine is hot. Mine drives at 21psi and idles at 25-28psi in low engine mode and 32psi in high engine mode.

At this point I’m leaving auto start/stop on because I want that CEL to come up (hoping this will contribute). Not willing to WOT it though because I fear Ford will say “not covered under warranty because you redlined during break in period”.
 
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Tr4ckD4ys

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Alright guys - created another, more comprehensive video. Apologies for the thick German accent.
 

Bhollier

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@Pat86B The start up noise you are having is definitely the cam phasers, mine just started doing the same. But the other sound you are hearing may be the waste gates closing off once the engine is warm. Mine has done this since new, both with the factory turbos and custom turbos. I currently have the factory turbos back on since the cam phaser issue started on mine. Still makes that noise.

I did compare the start up of my Raptor to another turbo car I have and it also makes a similar sound until the engine reaches operating temp. I spoke with one of my engine guys and he told me this is normal for a turbo vehicle when they are cold. It is the waste gates opening and allowing the engine to warm up. Once the engine is warm they close off for normal operation.

I agree with you that having these issues on such a new vehicle is insane. With that being said I have done a bit of digging with other vehicles that use the same if not exact set up for the 3.5L EB motor we have and they also report the same. Specifically the car maker Radical (race car manufacturer) uses the 3.5 EB and they have a rebuild schedule for the motor at much less intervals than others in the same class. I spoke with a few guys that own them and they say that the 3.5 EB they use sounds the same before they rebuild the motor. Given this is a race/ track purpose vehicle but tells you a lot about what the engine can handle and for how long. The rebuild schedule seems to be more frequent on the EB than others in the same class. I am still curious if owners of the Ford GT are having issues.

I like my Raptor but will not buy another after this experience with the EB. I for one don't feel like constantly having to rebuild the damn thing on a yearly basis. Going back to diesel after I fix the cam phasers and get rid of my Raptor. I thought about doing a swap out to the 5.0 but it still doesn't help me with towing. The Raptor is a great truck for running off-road but this EB is a POS compared to the other options Ford could have gone with or given an option on.

Good luck on fixing your issues.
 

Raptor911

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The noise should only last for 2-4 seconds when you start it up. I am not saying you don't have it but the noise you have is not what is typical. Once the oil pressure comes up, the noise goes away. This is my wife's 2018 F150 that had it and was fixed.




Alright guys - created another, more comprehensive video. Apologies for the thick German accent.
 

Tr4ckD4ys

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The noise should only last for 2-4 seconds when you start it up. I am not saying you don't have it but the noise you have is not what is typical. Once the oil pressure comes up, the noise goes away. This is my wife's 2018 F150 that had it and was fixed.

I’ve listened to your videos quite extensively (been reading every single page on this post). I am aware mine doesn’t do the “most common” cam phaser sound - however, the ECU reading suggest (says field engineer) that the cam phasers are bad (in addition to other things?). I think what we hear on mine is the pre-cam-phaser noise of the ECU trying to adjust the timing, resulting in mild knocking while oil temps aren’t high and after oil pressure has gone down.
Just want to let the community know that my sounds, your sounds and other different sounds may all be symptoms of the same issue.

any tips on how to handle Ford customer care, or have a good contact or even a good lawyer? Please PM me. I want to start engaging an attorney to cover my *** - not to sue just yet.
 

Jakenbake

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I must lead off with I have not read this whole thread.

I had a 2014 3.5 eco boost a few years ago and it has a similar sound on start up. I believe it was also attributed to the cam phasers. But someone mentioned oil passages in this thread. I think fordtechmakuloco (spelled correctly?) said that he was seeing that the passages were clogged with material from the break in procedure or something similar.

Does the lack of oil pressure due to restricted oil passages seem to be the issue on the gen 2 eco boost or do people believe that the phaser itself is having issues? Would it be that lack of oil pressure after a few starts cause wear that makes them noisier? Typically will a swap of phasers eliminate the noise, even for just a while?

Just curious for my own knowledge.
 

Tr4ckD4ys

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Quick update for everyone: Ford is replacing my vehicle - in fact, between the dealer (who has been I credibly supportive and pushing for replacement since the issue started) and Ford, they are getting it replaced today.
 

nikhsub1

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Quick update for everyone: Ford is replacing my vehicle - in fact, between the dealer (who has been I credibly supportive and pushing for replacement since the issue started) and Ford, they are getting it replaced today.
Awesome news! And as they should! Ford should tear that thing down to learn WTF they are doing wrong.
 

FullAuto

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Guys - sorry for repeat post but you gotta listen to this, it’s my best one yet.



That video captures the sound the best of all the ones you posted. That is not the wastegate rattle I'm hearing on that video. I'm glad they are taking care of you. One thing is apparent is that not all cam phaser noises are exactly the same. I see videos with really loud start up noises (that 2-3 second one) and then the owners say it's fine otherwise. My truck had/has that noise although not as loud as others. I also have a lot of ticking/metallic tapping at start up (which honestly sounds worse than any video of wastegate rattle that I've heard). Once warm it made a terrible knock that could be heard from 10 feet away.



Update on my truck: It went back to Ford again for the startup rattle about 1500 miles after the cam phaser repair. In addition to the rattle coming back I now have a metal on metal "tink" sound on some cold startups. This is not the trans noise some have experienced on some warm starts. It's definitely coming from the motor. It almost sounds like the timing chain hitting the cover. It's making a weird sound on decel. Almost like a muffled impact gun. I also noticed my oil level was low for the amount of miles I had put on it and asked them to look into it. The dealer told me they are ordering a new motor due to the reoccurring start up noise and oil consumption issues. (I had the valve covers replaced earlier after multiple visits with the oil pressure light coming on and going into limp mode.) They let me pick it up and are calling me back with an ETA on it.
 
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