Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[Tr4ckD4ys]

Sounds like the technician and the dealership are not only unprofessional but very inexperienced. Why would they mention "buy back"? Ask them if they'd like to buy it back from you for full price paid, plus license & title fees, plus taxes, plus interest on their own dime. If not, they're in violation of their franchise agreement for not only failing to fulfill their responsibility of repairing the vehicle, but for recommending the customer get the vehicle repurchased from the manufacturer for an issue they are refusing to even attempt to address. Are they saying that they are incapable of repairing a warrantable issue per the warranty and policy manual? If that is their stance, than they should not be a Ford franchise, period.

As far as the noise, that does not sound like a cam phaser, but of course it's hard to decipher in a video. I would highly recommend that they (or you if necessary) observe the turbocharger wastegate electric motors while the concern occurs. When the vehicle is started, the PCM runs a self-test, which involves cycling the wastegates over their full range of travel. The issue could be as simple as a faulty wastegate actuator, which is very easy for a technician to repalce.

You’re right - the video wasn’t the best demo but at a cold soak start, it did have the typical, very noticeable cam phaser sound. The Ford Field Engineer had also diagnosed this afterwards in addition to the VCT solenoids.
Generally, you’re right, a dealer has obligations as a franchisee. But let’s leave that aside for a moment: The vehicle started having these issues after 150 miles, basically brand new out of factory. As a Ford customer, that in addition to what’s going on with other folks vehicles, is a major break of trust. The Ford dealer simply took my point of view as an upset customer and started fighting for me.
Successfully so, because it did not take Ford Corporate long to acknowledge that this was unacceptable on a brand new vehicle.
Now I am not saying that this was the only road to resolution or necessarily the best for Ford or for the dealer. But it was the best route for the customer (me) and with that, both Ford and the dealer have regained major trust with me.
I simply love my truck and Ford at this point. Not because something went wrong, but how swiftly it was handled by them. Therefore Ford should give this dealer a price of recognition rather than a warning. I will certainly buy the next gen Raptor too, and that’s really all Ford wants from its customers. To keep buying.

 

[smurfslayer]

I simply love my truck and Ford at this point. Not because something went wrong, but how swiftly it was handled by them.

They did this because statistically, they know that the replacement is not likely to suffer from the same issue. It’s not impossible, but definitely unlikely even though you may read cr@p tons of stories on here about it. Your stealership stepped up here for sure. Other stealerships hear this rattle and know instantly what it is and how to address it; order the parts, send you on your way until the parts arrive and schedule the repair- or at least give you that option. Others don’t handle this scenario as well for the customer and possibly for legit reasons, maybe the truck doesn’t misbehave on cold soak start up when they try to replicate, but as you point out it’s not the actual problem, it’s how the problem gets handled.

 

[FullAuto]

I talked to my service writer today and was told a new motor is on backorder. They will hopefully have an ETA by next week.

 

[smurfslayer]

damn man, sorry to hear. I hope they get you squared away soon.

 

[Bhollier]

Well I think I may have found a fix for the cam phaser without changing anything. Since the failure seems to be related to fluid (oil circulation) through the phaser allowing it to work properly. I decided to do a little work in our lab where we develop products for the oil and gas industry. There is a product we use for lubrication in drilling and production that is specifically tailored to inhibiting solids from contaminating drill mud and improves the flow of crude oil that I decided to trial in my engine oil as an additive.

I was able to get a sample of my oil from my motor and lab test came back positive in increasing the film strength of the oil while still having the same viscosity. Earlier this week I added 1/2 oz. of this chemical we developed to my engine oil and let the motor run at idle from about 30 min, just to be safe. The first day driving I noticed that my turbos were making a lot less noise, and the start up rattle was very faint. Today, 4 days after adding it, I have not heard the start up rattle at anytime and everything seems to be quieting in the way my engine operates. To be honest it runs smoother than the day I drove it off the lot. My gas mileage has gone up by 3 mpg, the truck runs much smoother, and my engine temps are running as normal.

This might be just a fluke but I am going to keep an eye on it and see how my oil looks when I change it later this month. I will have lab tests run to determine the effects of the product we have developed. If this works out we may have a fix other than have to break down the engine.

Just to let everyone know, my Raptor isn't the first engine we started working with this additive. I have added it to a few small race engines and have had very good results with them is why I decided to try this on my Raptor.

 

[Raptus]

That’s very interesting!

Do you have an idea why some cam phasers fail and others do not?


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[Bhollier]

That’s very interesting!

Do you have an idea why some cam phasers fail and others do not?


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No I don't have that info.

If the issue is related to fluid flow through the phaser we may have found a fix. The additive we have developed would fix the issue by removing the build up inside the unit and allow the filter to collect the particles that develop due to oil break down. The additive we have made is much thinner (molecular) than the oil we use in our engines. We are thinking that the reason why some phasers fail over others may be due to coking build up in the lubrication of the engine. The cam phaser in the Eco boost may be more sensitive to coking that other power plants.

I am willing to test my engine over time to see if this is a proper option for our engines and possibly all Eco boost engines as an alternative or a pretreatment that Ford should be using.

 

[Raptus]

No I don't have that info.

If the issue is related to fluid flow through the phaser we may have found a fix. The additive we have developed would fix the issue by removing the build up inside the unit and allow the filter to collect the particles that develop due to oil break down. The additive we have made is much thinner (molecular) than the oil we use in our engines. We are thinking that the reason why some phasers fail over others may be due to coking build up in the lubrication of the engine. The cam phaser in the Eco boost may be more sensitive to coking that other power plants.

I am willing to test my engine over time to see if this is a proper option for our engines and possibly all Eco boost engines as an alternative or a pretreatment that Ford should be using.

Have you seen a failed cam phasers that had failed and was removed to see if it had coked? If not it might be worth a trip to your local Ford dealer to see if that is the case.


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[Bhollier]

Have you seen a failed cam phasers that had failed and was removed to see if it had coked? If not it might be worth a trip to your local Ford dealer to see if that is the case.


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I have not been able to get my hands on a replaced part. I am just going off of what I have had experience on my motor. I know the history for oil changes and work done on the motor since new so it is easy for me to know if there are any failures in the past.

My past oil changes have not had any issues and past oil analysis haven't shown any issues to be concerned about. it was only recently I have noticed the rattle at start up that other have complained about. Before I replace my entire engine I am just looking into other alternatives to see if there is another fix other than replacing the failed part (cam phaser). If the additive we have developed is a proper fix it seems like a better and cheaper fix than replacing the cam phaser.

Our thinking behind this is that if the cam phaser is failing due to fluid changes (engine coking) no matter how many times the part is changed it may still have issues in the future. Easy solution is to develop an additive to fix the coking issue. We may have a solution to this. I am just testing this now on my motor and a few others to be sure we have a proper solution. I am interested to see if Ford has done a failure analysis on a failed cam phaser to determine why the part failed. My lab is set up to run test on the fluids and deposits but not metallurgy. I would think Ford would be doing this by now.

 

[nikhsub1]

AFAIK the reason for the noisy phasers is that they don't park properly when the motor is shutoff - nothing to do with lubrication/pressure. Since they aren't parked/locked right at shutdown they shudder for a second to catch sync with the rest of the system. Anyway, that is my understanding of the issue.