Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[FordTechOne]

Ok, hope this works. Here is the video of the cam phaser sound, that I was finally able to upload, from my truck.

2019 Sept/Oct build, 2K miles, brand new.

Not sure why I didn't get the updates from what FordTechOne is talking about but, as you can hear, I have the exact same sound as the "cam phaser issue". At this point, the sound is very quiet. If you were standing a few from the front of the truck, you may not hear it especially if you're not aware of the issue or are not looking for it but you can clearly hear it. The beginnings or normal?

My guess is in a few years, or ~10K miles, I'll have the full blown issue at which point I'll trade for a Tundra. My guess is the 2020s will have the issue as well, seeing as how they built mine knowing they were bad. They will probably keep using them until all the stock runs out.

Now if FordTechOne chimes in and says this sound is normal, as long as it doesn't get worse, I'm fine with that....

I do not hear anything concerning in that video, especially not cam phaser noise. Phaser noise is a distinct rattle sound that will occur a few seconds after startup. Phasers do not fail slowly or partially; once one fails to lock you will get the same loud rattle on startup; there is no "quiet" failure.

As far as a Tundra, don't buy into that farce. Toyota can't even keep frames under them. They rust out so severely that trucks were literally folding in half. Toyota denied the issue existed until they were taken to court in a class action lawsuit and lost, which has cost them over $3.4 Billion in frame replacements/buy backs. The lawsuit only covered up to 2010 models as it was filed many years ago, but the same rust issues are occurring on late model Tacomas/Tundras. Toyota still denies that there was ever a problem. As far as engine issues, Tundra has a major issue which they (surprise) deny exists and have not addressed. The cam towers are sealed to the cylinder heads using RTV; the RTV does not bond properly, which results in an oil leak between the cam tower and cylinder head. The issue affects all Toyota Pickup/SUVs with the 5.7L (3UR-FE) engine and requires the engine to be torn down to the point that all 4 camshafts are removed. Many repeat failure as well. Here is the 73 Page thread from their forum, the issue is still occurring on 2020 models and Toyota couldn't care less:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cam-shaft-tower-seal-leaking-please-read.20102/

 

[Kuan]

So you found two...(2)...examples on YouTube and now you're making the assertion that there is a widespread problem over hundreds of thousands of 2.7L engines? ANY engine component has a possibility of being faulty; there is no pattern failures on 2.7L engines or any other engine that uses the same design aside from the 3.5. In the first video it was stated that the engine only had 500 miles on it; clearly it received a faulty phaser during production. Most likely only one phaser is at fault and can be isolated one the front cover is removed.

For 2.7 engines that have had their oil changed at aftermarket facility, they often damage the housing stem or do not replace the housing o-rings. This results in low engine oil pressure, especially on a cold start. Ford released the following message:


SSM 47922 - Various Vehicles - 2.7L/3.0L EcoBoost Engine - Oil Filter Service Tip

When servicing the oil filter on vehicles equipped with a 2.7L or 3.0L EcoBoostengine it is critical to inspect the oil filter housing center stem to verify is not separated or damaged. If the center stem is damaged or separated from the housing this will result in oil flow through the reservoir drain port causing low engine oil pressure and internal engine damage. If the filter housing stem is damaged or separated, the oil filter housing must be replaced. If the center stem is not damaged or separated, the O-ring seals on the stem and housing must be replaced each time the filter is serviced.

I am not sure what to believe from your posts anymore. I was thankful when I saw your username and thought you might actually be a ford tech with some background. Evidently, not so and you sound more like the uninformed tech that throws parts at things and noty really sure what works, or what the problem is.
You were already wrong on the new phaser design. That has not happened. No TSB from Ford in Q4 with redesigned parts as they said there would be. This mythical cutoff date you mention for them in spring of 2019 is false because the rattling cam phasers are also on engines well past that date.
The 2.7 engine has a history similar to the 3.5 ecoboost. Go around and look at the history of that.... they know the cam phaser failure as well as the oil consumption issue. They have had the same problems as the 3.5.

 

[EricM]

The cam towers are sealed to the cylinder heads using RTV; the RTV does not bond properly, which results in an oil leak between the cam tower and cylinder head. The issue affects all Toyota Pickup/SUVs with the 5.7L (3UR-FE) engine and requires the engine to be torn down to the point that all 4 camshafts are removed. Many repeat failure as well. Here is the 73 Page thread from their forum, the issue is still occurring on 2020 models and Toyota couldn't care less:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cam-shaft-tower-seal-leaking-please-read.20102/

Naw man- Toyotas don't ever fail. Ask anyone who owns one.

 

[FordTechOne]

I am not sure what to believe from your posts anymore. I was thankful when I saw your username and thought you might actually be a ford tech with some background. Evidently, not so and you sound more like the uninformed tech that throws parts at things and noty really sure what works, or what the problem is.
You were already wrong on the new phaser design. That has not happened. No TSB from Ford in Q4 with redesigned parts as they said there would be. This mythical cutoff date you mention for them in spring of 2019 is false because the rattling cam phasers are also on engines well past that date.
The 2.7 engine has a history similar to the 3.5 ecoboost. Go around and look at the history of that.... they know the cam phaser failure as well as the oil consumption issue. They have had the same problems as the 3.5.

I provide the information as supplied by Ford. If you don't want to believe it, then don't. Uninformed tech? I'm a Ford Senior Master with many years in this business. What are your credentials?

I was not "wrong" about the phaser design. The new parts were installed on vehicles after the build date cutoff. That doesn't mean there will be a zero percent failure on every single phaser going forward. The root cause of the ORIGINAL issue was addressed, hence the build date cutoff. That in no way guarantees that the hundreds of thousands of 3.5L GTDI engines (MILLIONS of phasers) built since then will not experience a single future faulty camshaft phaser. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Ford indicated, per a service message, that a TSB was expected Q4 2019. Clearly they missed the cutoff, but the SSM still applies. The TSB is only released to standardize the labor operations.

The 2.7L does not have a "similar history" regarding either issue; it is a completely different engine architecture (Nano). What specific cam phaser and oil consumption issues are you referencing? Or are you just speculating based on internet gossip? The 2.7 EcoBoost had concern of smoke on startup that was caused by the LH turbocharger oil feed line; a TSB was released to install a revised line and the issue was resolved.

 

[WraptorBoy]

I do not hear anything concerning in that video, especially not cam phaser noise. Phaser noise is a distinct rattle sound that will occur a few seconds after startup. Phasers do not fail slowly or partially; once one fails to lock you will get the same loud rattle on startup; there is no "quiet" failure.

As far as a Tundra, don't buy into that farce. Toyota can't even keep frames under them. They rust out so severely that trucks were literally folding in half. Toyota denied the issue existed until they were taken to court in a class action lawsuit and lost, which has cost them over $3.4 Billion in frame replacements/buy backs. The lawsuit only covered up to 2010 models as it was filed many years ago, but the same rust issues are occurring on late model Tacomas/Tundras. Toyota still denies that there was ever a problem. As far as engine issues, Tundra has a major issue which they (surprise) deny exists and have not addressed. The cam towers are sealed to the cylinder heads using RTV; the RTV does not bond properly, which results in an oil leak between the cam tower and cylinder head. The issue affects all Toyota Pickup/SUVs with the 5.7L (3UR-FE) engine and requires the engine to be torn down to the point that all 4 camshafts are removed. Many repeat failure as well. Here is the 73 Page thread from their forum, the issue is still occurring on 2020 models and Toyota couldn't care less:

https://www.tundras.com/threads/cam-shaft-tower-seal-leaking-please-read.20102/

Seriously? Not to be rude, but that's an answer I would expect from a dealer who would avoid the issue and deny me a repair and I know they would be full of crap.

Not that you are BSing but more likely you will be in the minority of those who "cannot hear it" because the "cam rattle" is ABSOLUTELY 100% there, sounds EXACTLY the same as a supposed failed "cam phaser(s)" AND clearly lasts about 2 seconds exactly the same way in all the other videos. The sound is there, clear as day (just very quiet at this point) and cannot be denied.

As far as Toyota: I have experience with the rusting. On the east coast and similar climates, absolutely. I've yet to see ANY vehicle survive a decade of sand, salt and water. You won't see that in CA or other warm dry climates so moot. Toyota can deny it because I doubt they are building trucks to last under salty acidic conditions which not only destroy all vehicles but the roads as well just like all these vehicles would fail if you drove drove them through the desert sand for years. I mentioned Tundra because it has all I need except the performance (though performance ain't terrible) and I've had 20 years flawless record without issues with Toyota.

Anyway, the noise is pretty clear to me. Also, listening to it on a crappy speaker system will make it less obvious but still audible. Try headphones. I dunno but it's there.

Anyone else not hear it or am I really off my rocker?

 

[Kuan]

I provide the information as supplied by Ford. If you don't want to believe it, then don't. Uninformed tech? I'm a Ford Senior Master with many years in this business. What are your credentials?

I was not "wrong" about the phaser design. The new parts were installed on vehicles after the 4/1/2019 cutoff. That doesn't mean there will be a zero percent failure on every single phaser going forward. The root cause of the ORIGINAL issue was addressed, hence the build date cutoff. That in no way guarantees that the hundreds of thousands of 3.5L GTDI engines (MILLIONS of phasers) built since then will not experience a single future faulty camshaft phaser. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Ford indicated, per a service message, that a TSB was expected Q4 2019. Clearly they missed the cutoff, but the SSM still applies. The TSB is only released to standardize the labor operations.

The 2.7L does not have a "similar history" regarding either issue; it is a completely different engine architecture (Nano). What specific cam phaser and oil consumption issues are you referencing? Or are you just speculating based on internet gossip? The 2.7 EcoBoost had concern of smoke on startup that was caused by the LH turbocharger oil feed line; a TSB was released to install a revised line and the issue was resolved.

The TSB does not just standardize labor operations. It is also used to release updated / upgraded parts. When Ford announced that a TSB was coming in Q4 2019, it was stated new parts would be ready. Clearly, they are not.

 

[FordTechOne]

Seriously? Not to be rude, but that's an answer I would expect from a dealer who would avoid the issue and deny me a repair and I know they would be full of crap.

Not that you are BSing but more likely you will be in the minority of those who "cannot hear it" because the "cam rattle" is ABSOLUTELY 100% there, sounds EXACTLY the same as a supposed failed "cam phaser(s)" AND clearly lasts about 2 seconds exactly the same way in all the other videos. The sound is there, clear as day (just very quiet at this point) and cannot be denied.

As far as Toyota: I have experience with the rusting. On the east coast and similar climates, absolutely. I've yet to see ANY vehicle survive a decade of sand, salt and water. You won't see that in CA or other warm dry climates so moot. Toyota can deny it because I doubt they are building trucks to last under salty acidic conditions which not only destroy all vehicles but the roads as well just like all these vehicles would fail if you drove drove them through the desert sand for years. I mentioned Tundra because it has all I need except the performance (though performance ain't terrible) and I've had 20 years flawless record without issues with Toyota.

Anyway, the noise is pretty clear to me. Anyone else not hear it or am I really off my rocker?

I listened to it again. I understand your concern and I am not trying to be dismissive but I do not hear any cam phaser issue in that video. Once again, the noise cannot be "quiet at this point" because a phaser either properly locks on shutdown or fails to lock on shutdown. There is no in between. Maybe it is more apparent in person; if you truly feel there is an issue by all means bring it into the dealer for them to listen to in person. At that point you can also ask to compare it to other Raptors to determine if yours sounds abnormal.

 

[Stu]

Find a new or used one produced after the build date cutoff of 4/1/2019. As far as how "common" it is, that is hard to measure. Remember nobody is going to start a thread saying "My Cam Phasers are so Quiet!"; so all you will see are the posts with people having problems which must be put into perspective.

Thanks- unfortunately my budget forces me into 17/18 years.

 

[WraptorBoy]

I listened to it again. I understand your concern and I am not trying to be dismissive but I do not hear any cam phaser issue in that video. Once again, the noise cannot be "quiet at this point" because a phaser either properly locks on shutdown or fails to lock on shutdown. There is no in between. Maybe it is more apparent in person; if you truly feel there is an issue by all means bring it into the dealer for them to listen to in person. At that point you can also ask to compare it to other Raptors to determine if your sounds abnormal.

Yes I was actually going to reword that and mention again that I don't believe there is an issue at this time, so I agree.

As I mentioned earlier, I believe it may actually be normal, right now, and I'm fine if it stays that way.

My goal was to demonstrate that, even with potentially newly designed cam phasers which I hope I have, the noise is still there but at a much quieter scale.

I just wanted to let people listen, which may calm some as this is normal and it's just the way they sound after the redesign etc.

Cool if you don't hear it but wondering if anyone else can... NOT THE FAILED NOISE... the quiet scaled down but same noise?

 

[EricM]

I listened to it again. I understand your concern and I am not trying to be dismissive but I do not hear any cam phaser issue in that video. Once again, the noise cannot be "quiet at this point" because a phaser either properly locks on shutdown or fails to lock on shutdown. There is no in between. Maybe it is more apparent in person; if you truly feel there is an issue by all means bring it into the dealer for them to listen to in person. At that point you can also ask to compare it to other Raptors to determine if your sounds abnormal.

It's happening for exactly one second in the video- it's only happening when the timer on the video says 0:03. It's starts, rattles for 1 second, then it smooths out right as the timer rolls to 0:04. I can easily hear it and I'm listening with some basic $30 Logitech headphones.

We have a Gen 1 3.5L EB, and a Gen 2 2.7L EB and neither engine makes that rattling noise at startup. I remote start them all the time as I'm walking up to it, so I regularly get to hear them fire up as I'm standing right next to the engine bay.