Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[Badgertits]

That is what I thought too. These trucks make some noises.

If you mean like the first sound you hear just prior to actually cranking then I have it also & I do believe it’s related to starter just how it is, 2020 I test drove I also heard it faintly on startup.

 

[prowakeskater]

Question dudes. Bought a used raptor and purchased an 8 year 125k mile ESP. truck had 40k miles but the carfax only showed a recent service at 39k with nothing prior.

Would I need service records for those prior 39k miles to get a phaser repair done?

 

[Stu]

Just bought a 2017 which was delivered to me sounding like a diesel. It was only with me for 6 days before it went into the shop- bad turbo, cam phasers, potentially IWE, and a shuttering. The truck has now been at the shop for 3 weeks, with parts on back order with expected delivery in 1-2 weeks. While I love the truck I am now jaded, and working with the dealer on a refund. The week before I bought it a new turbo and pipes were installed. That same turbo has gone bad again... Hopefully I can get my $ back quickly, and I can find another.

 

[FordTechOne]

Just bought a 2017 which was delivered to me sounding like a diesel. It was only with me for 6 days before it went into the shop- bad turbo, cam phasers, potentially IWE, and a shuttering. The truck has now been at the shop for 3 weeks, with parts on back order with expected delivery in 1-2 weeks. While I love the truck I am now jaded, and working with the dealer on a refund. The week before I bought it a new turbo and pipes were installed. That same turbo has gone bad again... Hopefully I can get my $ back quickly, and I can find another.

Sounds like a workmanship issue. When a replacement turbocharger is installed, the turbocharger oil filter, oil supply line, and oil return line must ALL be replaced. Many dealers don't read the Workshop Manual, and end up re-using these components and causing a repeat failure. The turbocharger oil filter is located in the side of the engine block where the oil supply line connects:

Do you have maintenance records from the previous owner? The #1 cause of turbocharger failure is a lack of lubrication and poor quality/dirty oil. The IWE is an easy repair, there is a TSB with specific instructions to help the dealer diagnose the issue properly. The TSB also includes a calibration update to prevent future issues. As far as the shuttering, can you tell if it's engine or transmission related?

 

[dburb]

Hello FORD any word on the TSB for cam phaser failure TSB was due in the fourth quarter getting close to the end of the quarter??? I would hate to have you replace my Raptor a second time under the lemon law. Ford are you listening?

 

[FordTechOne]

AFAIK, all the different oem camshaft actuators have a spring that applies the force to “park” or zero position and a solid pin that pops into a receiver hole to hold the actuators at the specific position.

Correct.

Most designs utilize a short, very strong spring and pin located inside the actuator whereas Ford uses a relatively weak clock-style spring located outside the actuators. Likely due to patents on other designs. These clock springs are not fully captivated, so they’re subject to vibration and heat induced weakening and fractures. If the spring weakens it can’t apply enough force to solidly seat the locating pin resulting in the clatter until oil pressure comes up and the ECU commands the actuator into the desired dynamic position.

The Ford phasers use a torsion spring just like all common cam phasers. There is no evidence to suggest that the exposed spring is any less of a robust design than a spring that is internal to the housing. The 2.7 EcoBoost uses the same exact phaser design but does not have this issue. It's not a flawed design, its a manufacturing/supplier issue.

Ford has likely sent some failed phasers to their vendor for root cause analysis and maybe the vendor has made some attempts at improving durability of the spring/pin/socket. It would be great if someone with inside connections could tell us the vendor’s name.

Unfortunately, I am not privy to the supplier of the phasers.

My final point is that Ford is likely stuck with their current cam actuator (Ford calls it a phaser rather than actuator?) design because the better designs are already patented by the Japanese and Germans. Ford could likely purchase the better actuators at a ridiculous cost and have elected not.

Note that I have ~45k miles on my 2018 with no “phaser” problems.

There are no "better" or worse designs; the phaser type is selected by engine type and purpose. Ford also calls them Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) Units. Patents are not the issue; Ford uses both the enclosed design you reference on the 5.0 V8 and Naturally Aspirated V6 engines as well as the exposed torsion spring design on the 2.7 and Gen II 3.5 Ecoboost engines. In fact, suppliers hold many of the patents; for example, Borg-Warner engineered the Cam Torque Actuated (CTA) phasers and sells them to manufacturers (including Ford, as far back as the 2009 Escape).

 

[FordTechOne]

Hello FORD any word on the TSB for cam phaser failure TSB was due in the fourth quarter getting close to the end of the quarter??? I would hate to have you replace my Raptor a second time under the lemon law. Ford are you listening?

The updated parts are already out. The TSB only provides a directed procedure for the dealer to standardize the labor times.

 

[FordTechOne]

Question dudes. Bought a used raptor and purchased an 8 year 125k mile ESP. truck had 40k miles but the carfax only showed a recent service at 39k with nothing prior.

Would I need service records for those prior 39k miles to get a phaser repair done?

Shouldn't be an issue. The concern has been isolated to faulty camshaft phasers and an SSM has been released, so unless your engine is full of sludge, I don't see them requesting service records.

 

[lka]

The updated parts are already out. The TSB only provides a directed procedure for the dealer to standardize the labor times.

Do the 2020s have the updated parts?

 

[FordTechOne]

Do the 2020s have the updated parts?

Yes. Build date cutoff was 04/2019, at which point they were still building 2019 models.