Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[321raptor]

picking up my 2017 friday after a 3 week long debacle with extended warranty...asked the service mgr for the full invoice and parts list so hopefully I can get that today..

silver lining, pretty good timing to be getting the truck back...new wheels and tires are on a fedex truck heading my way as I type

 

[MtopRaptor]

Got my truck back yesterday from getting the cam phasers fixed. They make no noise now and the truck seems to run a lot better. No hesitation at all. Timing chain (or what I assume was that noise) is also gone. I asked them if they replaced the timing chain and they said they did not and that it was not damaged. Overall they only had it two days and its running great now. I do wish they would have given me paperwork that listed the part numbers used though.

Parts list for my repair

 

[Raptus]

Not sure if mentioned but ford has updated cylinder head cores. They allow the VCT solenoids to sit in the mega cam cap slightly differently as well as photos of the new cam phasers vs old. We will be offering new cam caps however one would need to send their heads in for an align hone, and it is still unclear how much of a long term effect this will have

New


Old


Old


New


New phaser where locking pin engages detent along with laser etched locking grooves made where phasers bolt thru all 3 sections



Old phaser


New again


Old head


New

Hi Ryan,

Thanks for the info. I just dropped my 2018 off at the dealer for new phasers. Do you recommend I have more than the new phasers installed? I don’t mind spending a little more money if this doesn’t happen again.


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[FordTechOne]

I'm sorry for a noob / stupid question, but you think the 2020 Raptor would be camphaser free? I'm curious because i'm in a market for 2020 and wondering about it as well. Thanks

Yes. The new cam phaser design was implemented in production in 07/2018.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Yes. The new cam phaser design was implemented in production in 07/2018.

I’ve torn down engines with newer build dates than that with old phasers pulled out of them. Do you mean 2019?


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[FordTechOne]

I’ve torn down engines with newer build dates than that with old phasers pulled out of them. Do you mean 2019?

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Here is the SSM from Ford, per this communication, production was clean for F-150 on 7-10-18 and Expedition/Navigator on 4-8-19. Is it possible the engines your getting are out of an Exped/Navi?


48445 - 2017-2018 F-150, 2018-2019 Expedition/Navigator - 3.5L EcoBoost - Ticking/Tappin
Some 2017-2018 F-150 vehicles built on or before 10-Jul-2018 and 2018-2019 Exped ition/Navigator vehicles built on or before 8-Apr-2019 with 3.5L EcoBoost may ex hibit tick, tap, or rattle type noises from top of engine front cover for 2-5 se conds after a cold start. Replace all 4 VCT units (6256/6C525) and update the PC M calibration. Do not replace other camshaft timing related components unless in spection identifies a concern. Refer to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-01. Cla im labor to replace VCTs using published labor operations and PCM programming us ing M-time. Dealers should order parts only when required to complete a repair. Once the parts are ordered, the vehicle may be returned to the customer to drive . This condition does not affect long term durability or performance.

 

[RMB_Ryan]

Here is the SSM from Ford, per this communication, production was clean for F-150 on 7-10-18 and Expedition/Navigator on 4-8-19. Is it possible the engines your getting are out of an Exped/Navi?


48445 - 2017-2018 F-150, 2018-2019 Expedition/Navigator - 3.5L EcoBoost - Ticking/Tappin
Some 2017-2018 F-150 vehicles built on or before 10-Jul-2018 and 2018-2019 Exped ition/Navigator vehicles built on or before 8-Apr-2019 with 3.5L EcoBoost may ex hibit tick, tap, or rattle type noises from top of engine front cover for 2-5 se conds after a cold start. Replace all 4 VCT units (6256/6C525) and update the PC M calibration. Do not replace other camshaft timing related components unless in spection identifies a concern. Refer to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-01. Cla im labor to replace VCTs using published labor operations and PCM programming us ing M-time. Dealers should order parts only when required to complete a repair. Once the parts are ordered, the vehicle may be returned to the customer to drive . This condition does not affect long term durability or performance.

I’m equip with IDS and full dealers worth of important “tools”. Not like the specialty tools for working on say engine or things to install this or that, I’m sure that’s a given, but all the licensing and logins, vcm3 etc. I call them the great money suck, but if You want to specialize in ford and letting selective builds for customers trucks in the shop even though we really build engines it’s a necessary expense as I’m sure you know.

Regarding the engines, They are new pulled out of raptors to build their long blocks. It also appears the cam caps the phasers sit in are really hot or miss. Out of like 24 sets of heads that came in 24 of the 48 had the old cam cap, sent back and 5 days later 24 new heads with latest caps.

 

[EricM]

Not sure if mentioned but ford has updated cylinder head cores. They allow the VCT solenoids to sit in the mega cam cap slightly differently as well as photos of the new cam phasers vs old. We will be offering new cam caps however one would need to send their heads in for an align hone, and it is still unclear how much of a long term effect this will have

New


Old


Old


New


New phaser where locking pin engages detent along with laser etched locking grooves made where phasers bolt thru all 3 sections



Old phaser


New again


Old head


New

Whoa. Hold the **** up.

I thought this was all just some "defective parts" and the design was NOT flawed.

That's been beaten into me by every Gen 2 owner for over 1000 posts in just this thread.

Now you guys are just gonna gloss over the fact that there are new head castings created to fix the phaser problem? That clearly shows it IS a flawed design. There is no reason to create new heads otherwise.

Maybe Ford will get it right this time.

 

[Donmatteo]

Whoa. Hold the **** up.

I thought this was all just some "defective parts" and the design was NOT flawed.

That's been beaten into me by every Gen 2 owner for over 1000 posts in just this thread.

Now you guys are just gonna gloss over the fact that there are new head castings created to fix the phaser problem? That clearly shows it IS a flawed design. There is no reason to create new heads otherwise.

Maybe Ford will get it right this time.

rut ro

 

[FordTechOne]

Whoa. Hold the **** up.

I thought this was all just some "defective parts" and the design was NOT flawed.

That's been beaten into me by every Gen 2 owner for over 1000 posts in just this thread.

Now you guys are just gonna gloss over the fact that there are new head castings created to fix the phaser problem? That clearly shows it IS a flawed design. There is no reason to create new heads otherwise.

Maybe Ford will get it right this time.

You’re assuming you know the reason for the cylinder head change and that it’s related to the cold start noise being discussed in this thread. Your assumptions are wrong.

The VCT solenoids and their placement in the cylinder heads is unrelated to any cold start noises caused by a faulty phaser. On a cold start, the solenoid does not supply oil pressure to the phaser. The solenoid only becomes active once the engine has sufficient oil pressure. A faulty phaser locking pin causes the phaser to rattle on a cold start until the solenoid activates and provides oil pressure to control the phaser hydraulically. No change to a VCT solenoid or Mega Cap will resolve a cam phaser locking pin issue.

Any change to the solenoid and/or related cylinder head design will only affect VCT operation once the PCM is actively controlling the VCT system during normal engine operating conditions. A design issue with either will cause symptoms such as loss of phaser control while driving (timing chain type rattle noise) or a phaser knock noise at idle. Both will typically set DTCs.

Stop making assumptions about a system that you don’t even understand the concept of.