Black widow suspension set up

[ntm]

So do you consider the excessive rebound action as being caused by the combination of the bump stops and the bump zone in the icon's ?
Or are the nationals simply riding too low now ?

 

[Squatting Dog]

Yes, the excessive rebounding was caused by the 150 psi in the bump stops. With the bump stops deflated, is allowing the ICON shocks to actually work. And playing around I set first compression full open and you can feel the two bypass zones, before you could not..

As far as springs, maybe these national standards based on SCab weight and not SCrew weight.. But the truck is level (a 1/2 high in back) at mid perch (measured center of axles to fender lip). Before TRR 2013, I will be addressing the rear springs (spring under kit)

-Greg

 

[ICONRep]

So do you consider the excessive rebound action as being caused by the combination of the bump stops and the bump zone in the icon's ?
Or are the nationals simply riding too low now ?

The "bump zone" feature you are referring to is in the front coilover shocks....


ICON Vehicle Dynamics

www.iconvehicledynamics.com
www.facebook.com/ivdsuspension

 

[BigJ]

I'm having a hard time picituring the mechanics of all this Greg. Bear with me?

Before the ICONs you didn't have the kicking mule problem, right? Same springs, same PSI in the bumps, change to the ICONs and all the sudden you've got a serious problem with the rear kicking around pretty much uncontrollably.

Do I have that right so far?

If so, why isn't it a matter of "tuning" the ICONs in the rear to at least mirror how things used to work before they went in? Can't you dial them in to replicate how things rode with the old shocks?

I guess I'm having a hard time picturing stuff in terms of compliance enough to be so far into the bump stop even in just normal daily driving. Seems like they're set way to soft, and that the rear would sort of be bobbing like a ship in the water as a result.

What am I missing?

 

[Squatting Dog]

I'm having a hard time picituring the mechanics of all this Greg. Bear with me?

Before the ICONs you didn't have the kicking mule problem, right? Same springs, same PSI in the bumps, change to the ICONs and all the sudden you've got a serious problem with the rear kicking around pretty much uncontrollably.

Do I have that right so far?

If so, why isn't it a matter of "tuning" the ICONs in the rear to at least mirror how things used to work before they went in? Can't you dial them in to replicate how things rode with the old shocks?

I guess I'm having a hard time picturing stuff in terms of compliance enough to be so far into the bump stop even in just normal daily driving. Seems like they're set way to soft, and that the rear would sort of be bobbing like a ship in the water as a result.

What am I missing?

Because both rear OEM shocks were blown and I became use to the hitting the bump stops.

Now I notice it more because first stage is soft for on road comfort, and before it hits the second bypass stage. It is hitting the bump stops and the extra rebound of bump stops causes back to kick around. If I tightened up rebound to compensate for bump stops it would cause the shock piston to return slower and stay on stiff bump stops longer.
Lowering the pressure in the bumps allows the shocks to completely dampen the axle without interference of bump stops.

The increased surface area of the ICON shocks seem to handle the mass and kinetic energy of the axle better than stock shocks.

In my opinion the stock rear shocks are to undersized for the Raptor. Which causes the overheating, shock fade and frame issues.



-Greg

 

[Jackemuphigh21]

What is this going to mean for Offroad driving with bumps? Same issues?

 

[BigJ]

Ok maybe that's where I'm a little confused. The ICON's first stage is longer than the travel of the rear, before its into the bump stop?

Let me put it another way: how much up travel of the rear before the ICON's 2nd stage starts to engage?

Sounds like maybe these were designed for use with the OEM bump stops?

 

[Squatting Dog]

Normal (fully presurized) position

View attachment 14731

Only 25 psi

View attachment 14732

At full pressure there was only 1.5-2" up travel from static. With 25psi there is about 4" up travel with 1" of travel left on bump stop..

-Greg

 

[MotuMute]

None of these issues noted with Fox 3.0's and same Stage 3 setup with +1 Nationals. They seem ideal offroad (and onroad) just the way RPG pre-dialed them in, but I have nothing else to compare other than stock shock performance. Does ICON pre-dial optimal settings for scab vs screw so that there is a good baseline to start from?

 

[Jackemuphigh21]

Sounds like maybe these were designed for use with the OEM bump stops?

Well BigJ I can definitely tell you that the ICON truck has been running without bumps or frame support so my guess is that's correct or no bump at all since they are designed to have an internal bump stage. The big question here now is, are the two compatible?