2014 Gen I vs. 2017 Gen II Suspension Impressions

[ovrlnd]

Those Deavers probably aren't Raptor specific.

 

[Wilson]

I have spent some time in a few Gen 1s vs my stock Gen 2 the past weeks off road and on road. The Gen 2 suspension is far superior on and off road to the Gen 1. We even thought it was comparable to a Gen 1 that had a full Icon 3.0 setup... in whoops, small rollers...on road. It was just as good. Where the Icons shined over the stock Gen 2 suspension is having the clickers. By being able to adjust the high speed dampening it made a big difference on big jumps.

We drove up to our place in Northern NH this past Friday...we were doing the speed limit (50) and through a frost heaved section the Gen II bounced so bad that if someone were coming the other way I would have hit his driver's side front with my driver's side rear...no exaggeration...My wife and son were just shaking their heads...So out of nothing more than "Let's just see what's what curiosity...when we got up there...we got the Gen I out...mind you with 82K on it...and the NOT rebuilt shocks...and drove right back through the same section...I never needed 2 hands on the wheel...

So not sure what to tell you...maybe off road going straight over whoops or whatever the Gen II is better, but in the real world on roads with bumps, ruts, frost heaves, etc...the Gen II is downright scary compared to the Gen I, and as some far more educated guys on here have pointed out it's probably from the Aluminum/less weight, and Leaf Springs and Shock Placement (The one weekend I have driven north full of pallets in my Gen II it handled twice as good as unloaded...to me lending much credence to what others have speculated).

the difference in spending time and actually having both... nice feed back on both I'm not dissing it probably had a lot to do with how you hit the bump at least you kept it on the road and no one was coming. I wonder if these gen 2s donkey kick

 

[Jimbo]

Those Deavers probably aren't Raptor specific.

They are Raptor specific.

 

[ovrlnd]

Well O.K. then.

 

[Jimbo]

Well O.K. then.

They've had the F150 deavers out for awhile now, they re-engineered a specific Raptor version.

 

[mwm5094]

Guys.....If putting weight in the bed solves the issue, why not just add some downforce?

 

[MatMan]

Because snow is free.. just shovel some into the bed.

 

[Kowboy17]

Boss,

I am on my second GEN 1. I sold my 13 in anticipation of the GEN 2 but decided to look for a clean 14 after a test drive. Ended up with a 14 Roush and love it.

My background is in Motocross and SnoCross (x-country too) Did both for 30 + years so I consider myself to have a fairly solid foundation on shock technology, shock valving and its feel / effect.

That being said, I am by no means a shock guru for these trucks, but I think my seat-o-the pants meter is pretty good.
The first thing I noticed on the 17 was how soft (plush) the initial part of the shock stroke was. The combination of tire/preassure, spring rate and shock valving made the truck ride very smooth. Im sure Ford's idea was to sell more of these non SVT trucks than in years previous and wanted them a little more compliant on the street. To achieve this ride, they run a fairly light spring rate, which also prompted them to run the staggered shock design to control axel wrap. These two things go hand in hand and why they decided to change the previous design. It wasnt to make it better offroad or pull more travel, just a way to run less spring and keep it from hopping.. In theory at least.
To me, the shock valving feels like it has speed sensative damping. So with slow shock shaft speeds, there is little compression damping initially, adding to the soft feel and nice car like ride.
But when you encounter any sudden hit that ramps up the shock shaft speed abruptly, (Hi shaft speed) the valve stack gets very firm (Hi-Speed Compression) and can make the back end feel almost too stiff, causing the rear to step out on those frost heaves or expansion joints.
The transition from the free feeling comfort zone, to where the H-S Comp stack takes over is a little harsh.

Unfortunately, this Hi-Speed Comp is what makes the shock work well when you are pounding the truck hard offroad using more of the shock stroke and out of the ride height comfort zone.

I would think that a revalve when then need to be freshened up would probably get you sorted.
Someone earlier commented that when they added the lift spacer to the front or weight in the back that it got better. That tells me that it pushes the shock out of that floaty comfort area, and makes the shock action spike less.

This so true and great explanation. I notice it a lot when on HWY traveling at speed (~70 mph) and traveling around a bend and over a bridge for example. The rear end when it hits the beginning or the end of the bridge connector (if up or down a little) will cause the back get loose! Also, (not sure it's just me or not) but coming from my Gen I, the truck seems to 'roll' over more around exit and onramps???? Anyone else feel this?

 

[kandyappleman]

For those interested, I had an 11 super crew with 100k miles on it. Of the 100k, 20k were Baja miles and the truck got used. Both as a prerunner and chase truck for the Desert Assassins. Over the course of time, I added the Fox 3.0's, frame gusset kit w/ bump stops and 37" tires. The 3.0's were obviously the largest change. Side note, I never upgraded to Deavers or aftermarket upper arms, but I should have. I've spent some time in Gen 1's with both, and they did work better. In any case, my Gen 1 worked very well and I was incredibly reluctant to sell it. But I did, and replaced it with the 2017.

I can tell you from a lot of experience, the new truck is better. And not mildly better, but a lot better. Thus far I only have 3k miles on it, and of that, I've only just used it off-road for the first time this weekend in Borrego Springs. But it doesn't take many miles to know better when you feel it. First off, the 17 is a beast. The Gen 1's didn't necessarily have a shortage of power, but there was a noticeable lag in lower RPM's. The newer trucks have 0 lag. Which is fun enough on the street, but wildly fun off road. I should mention that the truck is bone stock at the moment. I may add an RPG collar (or similar) in the future... but I'm reluctant to jeopardize the CV angle for a 1.5" lift. Anyways. After a weekend in Borrego, it's my opinion the Gen 2 works equally well if not a little bit better than a Gen 1 with 3.0's, Deavers and Upper Arms. But because of the bigger motor and tranny, it's better. Flat out. With the absence of the lower RPM power of the previous generation, you can now really use the motor to turn the truck in tighter situations. Something that just wasn't possible before. I agree with the author of this post that the brakes leave something to be desired, but they work plenty good. For those that have spoke ill of the Baja mode, or would prefer to use sport over anything else off road, I say NO. Baja mode is truly the perfect complement to the Gen 2 if driving the truck the way it's meant to be driven. My only suggestion to Ford would be to give the driver the ability choose between 2wd WITH rear locker engaged and 4wd. But a minor suggestion that I'm perfectly happy to deal with.

Overall - I am very very happy with my new Gen 2. Its my daily driver and there is quite honestly no other vehicle I could ever want. It's a beast, it's pretty, and most importantly, it works! Great job again Ford!

 

[bosssho]

This so true and great explanation. I notice it a lot when on HWY traveling at speed (~70 mph) and traveling around a bend and over a bridge for example. The rear end when it hits the beginning or the end of the bridge connector (if up or down a little) will cause the back get loose! Also, (not sure it's just me or not) but coming from my Gen I, the truck seems to 'roll' over more around exit and onramps???? Anyone else feel this?

100%. I have documented all of this.

The rolling could be springs, front sway (no rear), and or C Rated Vs. D Rated BFG Tires...but it's all for the worse. I just can't understand how anyone would say the new trucks handle as well, never mind better than the old ones...

I'm hoping through all the great and informative comments on here I can tweak some things to get my 17 to handle at least close to my 14.