2014 Gen I vs. 2017 Gen II Suspension Impressions

[gwpfan]

We drove up to our place in Northern NH this past Friday...we were doing the speed limit (50) and through a frost heaved section the Gen II bounced so bad that if someone were coming the other way I would have hit his driver's side front with my driver's side rear...no exaggeration...My wife and son were just shaking their heads...So out of nothing more than "Let's just see what's what curiosity...when we got up there...we got the Gen I out...mind you with 82K on it...and the NOT rebuilt shocks...and drove right back through the same section...I never needed 2 hands on the wheel...

So not sure what to tell you...maybe off road going straight over whoops or whatever the Gen II is better, but in the real world on roads with bumps, ruts, frost heaves, etc...the Gen II is downright scary compared to the Gen I, and as some far more educated guys on here have pointed out it's probably from the Aluminum/less weight, and Leaf Springs and Shock Placement (The one weekend I have driven north full of pallets in my Gen II it handled twice as good as unloaded...to me lending much credence to what others have speculated).

That's an interesting comment. Wife's 16 Platinum SCREW long box I do not like how it corners at all compared to her 13 (same style) and my 12 lariat SCREW long box.
Felt the suspension wasn't quite 'tuned' right or I just need more time driving and getting used to it...spent a lot of hours behind the wheel of that truck and still don't feel I can corner near as well as the others.
Curious though if you get a chance and are willing if more/less speed will smooth it out? I've been in a couple of work trucks that I thought handled so bad the driveline or something was out of out of balance. Had tires/wheel/alignment checked...Come to find out at interstate speeds and that section of road I exclusively drove at that speed created that almost out of control feel. It actually was the concrete expansion joints at that spacing with that spring setup that gave the effect. Funny thing was is people thought I was crazy until they got it up to 70 mph on that section of road in that truck.

Wonder what a perch adjustment would do like many have done on Gen 1's?

 

[byz250f]

We drove up to our place in Northern NH this past Friday...we were doing the speed limit (50) and through a frost heaved section the Gen II bounced so bad that if someone were coming the other way I would have hit his driver's side front with my driver's side rear...no exaggeration...My wife and son were just shaking their heads...So out of nothing more than "Let's just see what's what curiosity...when we got up there...we got the Gen I out...mind you with 82K on it...and the NOT rebuilt shocks...and drove right back through the same section...I never needed 2 hands on the wheel...

So not sure what to tell you...maybe off road going straight over whoops or whatever the Gen II is better, but in the real world on roads with bumps, ruts, frost heaves, etc...the Gen II is downright scary compared to the Gen I, and as some far more educated guys on here have pointed out it's probably from the Aluminum/less weight, and Leaf Springs and Shock Placement (The one weekend I have driven north full of pallets in my Gen II it handled twice as good as unloaded...to me lending much credence to what others have speculated).

I do agree I have noticed on washboard dirt roads that the rear end gets a little sketchy at low speeds. But my 16 ram did the same thing. I do believe from what people have said that the gen 2 is valved a little stiffer...makes sense the Gen 1 Fox 2.5s (2.0 valve size) vs the lighter Gen 2 with a Fox 3.0 (2.5 valve size 25% bigger) so ya it should be stiffer.

 

[EricM]

We drove up to our place in Northern NH this past Friday...we were doing the speed limit (50) and through a frost heaved section the Gen II bounced so bad that if someone were coming the other way I would have hit his driver's side front with my driver's side rear...no exaggeration...My wife and son were just shaking their heads...So out of nothing more than "Let's just see what's what curiosity...when we got up there...we got the Gen I out...mind you with 82K on it...and the NOT rebuilt shocks...and drove right back through the same section...I never needed 2 hands on the wheel...

So not sure what to tell you...maybe off road going straight over whoops or whatever the Gen II is better, but in the real world on roads with bumps, ruts, frost heaves, etc...the Gen II is downright scary compared to the Gen I, and as some far more educated guys on here have pointed out it's probably from the Aluminum/less weight, and Leaf Springs and Shock Placement (The one weekend I have driven north full of pallets in my Gen II it handled twice as good as unloaded...to me lending much credence to what others have speculated).

Some video from a trailing vehicle of each truck over the same section of road would be very telling.

 

[bosssho]

Some video from a trailing vehicle of each truck over the same section of road would be very telling.

That would be a project...we aren't going back up for a couple of weeks as snowmobile season is pretty much done, kids start sports, mud season/mess up there with kids and dogs, etc...but I will see what I can do come spring as I am pretty sure we should still be able to find some bumps.

I just don't "feel" like the new trucks are valved stiffer...they feel a lot more spongy...as in the ride is GREAT on anything that is not crazy bumpy...

The New Trucks are definitely quick...I notice my trips are averaging about 5 - 10 minutes less over 217 miles with a 2 month sample...and while a lot of things annoy us (the whole family agrees with me) we all agree the interior is a large step up in fit/finish/comfort, etc...so if we can nail down getting the ass end more planted....

 

[Canuck714]

Boss,

I am on my second GEN 1. I sold my 13 in anticipation of the GEN 2 but decided to look for a clean 14 after a test drive. Ended up with a 14 Roush and love it.

My background is in Motocross and SnoCross (x-country too) Did both for 30 + years so I consider myself to have a fairly solid foundation on shock technology, shock valving and its feel / effect.

That being said, I am by no means a shock guru for these trucks, but I think my seat-o-the pants meter is pretty good.
The first thing I noticed on the 17 was how soft (plush) the initial part of the shock stroke was. The combination of tire/preassure, spring rate and shock valving made the truck ride very smooth. Im sure Ford's idea was to sell more of these non SVT trucks than in years previous and wanted them a little more compliant on the street. To achieve this ride, they run a fairly light spring rate, which also prompted them to run the staggered shock design to control axel wrap. These two things go hand in hand and why they decided to change the previous design. It wasnt to make it better offroad or pull more travel, just a way to run less spring and keep it from hopping.. In theory at least.
To me, the shock valving feels like it has speed sensative damping. So with slow shock shaft speeds, there is little compression damping initially, adding to the soft feel and nice car like ride.
But when you encounter any sudden hit that ramps up the shock shaft speed abruptly, (Hi shaft speed) the valve stack gets very firm (Hi-Speed Compression) and can make the back end feel almost too stiff, causing the rear to step out on those frost heaves or expansion joints.
The transition from the free feeling comfort zone, to where the H-S Comp stack takes over is a little harsh.

Unfortunately, this Hi-Speed Comp is what makes the shock work well when you are pounding the truck hard offroad using more of the shock stroke and out of the ride height comfort zone.

I would think that a revalve when then need to be freshened up would probably get you sorted.
Someone earlier commented that when they added the lift spacer to the front or weight in the back that it got better. That tells me that it pushes the shock out of that floaty comfort area, and makes the shock action spike less.

 

[bosssho]

Boss,

I am on my second GEN 1. I sold my 13 in anticipation of the GEN 2 but decided to look for a clean 14 after a test drive. Ended up with a 14 Roush and love it.

My background is in Motocross and SnoCross (x-country too) Did both for 30 + years so I consider myself to have a fairly solid foundation on shock technology, shock valving and its feel / effect.

That being said, I am by no means a shock guru for these trucks, but I think my seat-o-the pants meter is pretty good.
The first thing I noticed on the 17 was how soft (plush) the initial part of the shock stroke was. The combination of tire/preassure, spring rate and shock valving made the truck ride very smooth. Im sure Ford's idea was to sell more of these non SVT trucks than in years previous and wanted them a little more compliant on the street. To achieve this ride, they run a fairly light spring rate, which also prompted them to run the staggered shock design to control axel wrap. These two things go hand in hand and why they decided to change the previous design. It wasnt to make it better offroad or pull more travel, just a way to run less spring and keep it from hopping.. In theory at least.
To me, the shock valving feels like it has speed sensative damping. So with slow shock shaft speeds, there is little compression damping initially, adding to the soft feel and nice car like ride.
But when you encounter any sudden hit that ramps up the shock shaft speed abruptly, (Hi shaft speed) the valve stack gets very firm (Hi-Speed Compression) and can make the back end feel almost too stiff, causing the rear to step out on those frost heaves or expansion joints.
The transition from the free feeling comfort zone, to where the H-S Comp stack takes over is a little harsh.

Unfortunately, this Hi-Speed Comp is what makes the shock work well when you are pounding the truck hard offroad using more of the shock stroke and out of the ride height comfort zone.

I would think that a revalve when then need to be freshened up would probably get you sorted.
Someone earlier commented that when they added the lift spacer to the front or weight in the back that it got better. That tells me that it pushes the shock out of that floaty comfort area, and makes the shock action spike less.

AWESOME info, thanks.

 

[dude1782]

On Facebook add said they've already done some deaver springs


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[bosssho]

On Facebook add said they've already done some deaver springs


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Can you link me please? Did they say good results?

 

[dude1782]

I don't think I can link it since it's a closed group. If you're a member of gen2 discussion you can just search deaver and it'll come up. Here's a screenshot of what add had to say. I haven't seen or heard of gen2 deaver anywhere else.

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[mwm5094]

Yes Barry, you do "loose" the blocks but do not "loose" ride quality.