2014 Gen I vs. 2017 Gen II Suspension Impressions

[bosssho]

The disagrement is the drama around it being a huge issue. You're blowing it out of proportion. Yes it exists, no it isn't a flipping sports car, it is a truck. Get over it.

Go over to the thread I posted, I see you conveniently ignored that part. But shit birds like you are the issue. You find one thing and you obsess over it, ignoring all of the other huge improvements.

Good thing you're in the minority here. Don't respond because you have nothing to add but bitching and looking for people who support your position. You're on the ole ignore list now tool.

10 Years ago, in my 30s, I would have gone ******* on this...now at 44, with kids, etc...I just lol at this and Kool-Aid Drinkers like you. Other people said it already, but the bottom line is you should never have posted here...You don't agree...that's fine...you have your opinon...I have FACTS...I own both trucks...I drive the **** out of em...literally every weekend...but if you simply don't agree...why waste time with shit birds like me...this entire thread has nothing to do with you, so simply ignore it ha ha.

I need to correct one aspect in my statement above, the Gen 2 does have a secondary spring but it isn't very thick and tapers out quickly. A side by side comparison would be nice. I am going to guess the Gen 1 secondary spring is thicker and doesn't taper as much which results in a higher spring rate once the secondary spring is engaged.

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So I put on the last Snowmobile Race of the season this weekend...so things will calm down and I can focus more on stuff like this as the weather warms and weekends calm down a bit. I did however check out my shocks on both trucks and honestly I never noticed the 14 had the shocks in line vs. the staggered shocks on the 17s....and I never noticed b/c I never needed to ;-)

I did see what you meant about the 17s thin leaf springs, but I did NOT check out the 14s Leafs...forgot that...but want to get pics, etc...then we don't have to guess, but can know for sure. Thanks again for the tid bit.

He owns both a Gen 1 and Gen 2 Raptor. Do you? Have you driven both trucks in high speed off road scenarios? He has. He has used both trucks in the exact scenario Ford designed them for and has issues with the Gen 2's performance compared to a Gen 1. You and your ilk don't think it's a big deal because you don't use your trucks that way.

You are in here ******** all over his thread as usual, then go on to say you are putting him on your ignore list because apparently you don't like his replies to your shit posts. Maybe if you had just stayed the **** out of it since you have no actual experience in the matter you wouldn't be so butt hurt about what he said to you.

Ha ha...Thanks Man. No worries on him. The internet turns everyone into a Psychic and a 10th degree black belt ha ha. I wish I had a camera crew following me while on a frost heave filled road coming home yesterday from NH to MA...the 17, on 3 different occasions, had to have the stability control kick in, as the rear end hopped sideways over the frost heaves...in a straight line...not even cornering...but I'm making it up ;-)

How dare anyone questioning RaptorJesus's prowess. Gotta justify that money you spent right? Just because it isn't an issue to you doesn't mean it isn't to others.

For example I run straight pipes and don't care about drone, but I don't shit on people who do.

If you haven't put me on your ignore list yet, might as well while you're at it. Maybe go start a new thread more along your knowledge base, like "what's your favorite frappuccino".

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Exactly what my friends and I were talking about this weekend when I was ironically discussing this thread. I actually let a guy from ME, who'd done rally driving...take the truck on Saturday Night. His EXACT comments were "Holy F**K, this thing bounces all over the place...and I can't believe how planted it isn't over all these bumps...isn't that what a RAPTOR is all about???" I almost pissed my pants laughing b/c I had NOT brought up this thread or anything yet...He just asked if he could drive the truck after we were done racing sleds, and I was happy to oblige and was eagerly awaiting his opinion. And sitting in the passenger seat was worse than driving it while it floated all over the place...but yeah, $70K is a lot of ego to swallow if you're not satisfied. I try to have zero ego on as many things as possible, and this is one of them...but...if I can improve the shortcomings for NOT a ton of investment...that's my end goal 100%...not to crap on the truck, but to get it to work like the Gen I. That's why I don't get the people getting Butt Hurt really....

The brakes sucked on my 2011, they're slightly better on my 2017.

I tow a 6000lb+ boat not even a little sag. The 2017 tows waaaay nicer than the 2011.

I don't know how you can say it drives like a Cutlass then it's hard as a rock. You take your airpressure down to off-road levels and complain about the on road handling... Sounds like your truck is ******.

You should sell it as fast as you can! Get a Denali, you'll be happier.

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So you start off on point, then quickly derail. I don't believe (Not even going back but you can cut and paste if I am wrong) I said that in those words, but if I did...My bad.

Here is what I believe I said, but 200% what I meant, and have said to anyone who asks how I like it vs. my 2014....The trucks rides in a manner that makes you feel higher, but due to that it's tippier and rolls more in the corners, and while the Ford Spec'd PSI went down from 44 to 38 PSI, and while the Tires went down from D to C rated, the Ride does NOT absorb the bumps like the 14, and as a result the truck is all over the place...in a scary manner. No where in there do I say it rides stiff, hard, etc...No where. The irony is that all those indicators lead to a SOFTER ride, which theoretically would be better, but NOT if it can't stay planted. Now....if you NEVER ride on Dirt/Fire/Private Roads...or Frost Heaved out roads...you may never notice any of this, but if you do...and you don't agree....I don't have an answer for that. It's NOT my truck...I know that...it's the 17 Trucks Period. Ford went way backwards on a lot...

Trailering: the rear sag is foolish looking...again, vs. my 2014. Same Trailer, Same Sleds in it...the 17 is being dragged down vs. the 14 just squats a little. That to me says much SOFTER suspension. Also, I was looking forward to 510 lbs/Trq and the more power going up our consecutive hills on our private road in NH...nope...not w/the 10 speed and the way Ford has this set up...you really need to get into the gas...but this Truck tows no better (read ease of towing the same trailer w/the same weight) than my dinosaur 6.2L V8. Gas Mileage, as several others have put out there, with ALL Eco Boost Trucks...is worse towing. So I fail to find the improvements there.

Telling me to sell the truck and go get a Sierra Denali, assumably b/c I mentioned my 08 is just passive aggressive BS...I don't think anyone would disagree that with all this extra power and torque the brakes should also be up to the Task, and they are not...Several Magazines and Online reviews immediately pointed this out.

 

[Bullishone]

10 Years ago, in my 30s, I would have gone ******* on this...now at 44, with kids, etc...I just lol at this and Kool-Aid Drinkers like you. Other people said it already, but the bottom line is you should never have posted here...You don't agree...that's fine...you have your opinon...I have FACTS...I own both trucks...I drive the **** out of em...literally every weekend...but if you simply don't agree...why waste time with shit birds like me...this entire thread has nothing to do with you, so simply ignore it ha ha.



So I put on the last Snowmobile Race of the season this weekend...so things will calm down and I can focus more on stuff like this as the weather warms and weekends calm down a bit. I did however check out my shocks on both trucks and honestly I never noticed the 14 had the shocks in line vs. the staggered shocks on the 17s....and I never noticed b/c I never needed to ;-)

I did see what you meant about the 17s thin leaf springs, but I did NOT check out the 14s Leafs...forgot that...but want to get pics, etc...then we don't have to guess, but can know for sure. Thanks again for the tid bit.



Ha ha...Thanks Man. No worries on him. The internet turns everyone into a Psychic and a 10th degree black belt ha ha. I wish I had a camera crew following me while on a frost heave filled road coming home yesterday from NH to MA...the 17, on 3 different occasions, had to have the stability control kick in, as the rear end hopped sideways over the frost heaves...in a straight line...not even cornering...but I'm making it up ;-)



Exactly what my friends and I were talking about this weekend when I was ironically discussing this thread. I actually let a guy from ME, who'd done rally driving...take the truck on Saturday Night. His EXACT comments were "Holy F**K, this thing bounces all over the place...and I can't believe how planted it isn't over all these bumps...isn't that what a RAPTOR is all about???" I almost pissed my pants laughing b/c I had NOT brought up this thread or anything yet...He just asked if he could drive the truck after we were done racing sleds, and I was happy to oblige and was eagerly awaiting his opinion. And sitting in the passenger seat was worse than driving it while it floated all over the place...but yeah, $70K is a lot of ego to swallow if you're not satisfied. I try to have zero ego on as many things as possible, and this is one of them...but...if I can improve the shortcomings for NOT a ton of investment...that's my end goal 100%...not to crap on the truck, but to get it to work like the Gen I. That's why I don't get the people getting Butt Hurt really....



So you start off on point, then quickly derail. I don't believe (Not even going back but you can cut and paste if I am wrong) I said that in those words, but if I did...My bad.

Here is what I believe I said, but 200% what I meant, and have said to anyone who asks how I like it vs. my 2014....The trucks rides in a manner that makes you feel higher, but due to that it's tippier and rolls more in the corners, and while the Ford Spec'd PSI went down from 44 to 38 PSI, and while the Tires went down from D to C rated, the Ride does NOT absorb the bumps like the 14, and as a result the truck is all over the place...in a scary manner. No where in there do I say it rides stiff, hard, etc...No where. The irony is that all those indicators lead to a SOFTER ride, which theoretically would be better, but NOT if it can't stay planted. Now....if you NEVER ride on Dirt/Fire/Private Roads...or Frost Heaved out roads...you may never notice any of this, but if you do...and you don't agree....I don't have an answer for that. It's NOT my truck...I know that...it's the 17 Trucks Period. Ford went way backwards on a lot...

Trailering: the rear sag is foolish looking...again, vs. my 2014. Same Trailer, Same Sleds in it...the 17 is being dragged down vs. the 14 just squats a little. That to me says much SOFTER suspension. Also, I was looking forward to 510 lbs/Trq and the more power going up our consecutive hills on our private road in NH...nope...not w/the 10 speed and the way Ford has this set up...you really need to get into the gas...but this Truck tows no better (read ease of towing the same trailer w/the same weight) than my dinosaur 6.2L V8. Gas Mileage, as several others have put out there, with ALL Eco Boost Trucks...is worse towing. So I fail to find the improvements there.

Telling me to sell the truck and go get a Sierra Denali, assumably b/c I mentioned my 08 is just passive aggressive BS...I don't think anyone would disagree that with all this extra power and torque the brakes should also be up to the Task, and they are not...Several Magazines and Online reviews immediately pointed this out.

Hahaha. Okay fine.

It does sound like there might be something wrong with your suspension man. It sure doesn't sound anything like my truck.



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[mwm5094]

Pretty interesting to read through this thread.... My dad had a 2017 on order and ended up cancelling it. When I asked him why, he responded with, "So Ford can iron out all the little details and issues for 2018 or 2019".

I wonder if they will make any changes to resolve these issues for future MYs.

 

[bosssho]

Hahaha. Okay fine.

It does sound like there might be something wrong with your suspension man. It sure doesn't sound anything like my truck.

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Are you driving over the same type of roads and imperfections I am? Speed Limits on these roads vary from 30-55 MPH too fyi...Just trying to get a feel for if you'd even be subjected to the same circumstances ya know...

I really doubt anything is actually defective...Just doesn't work like a Raptor should. Soaking up the bumps...YEP, it does that, but staying safely planted is a Hard Fail.

Pretty interesting to read through this thread.... My dad had a 2017 on order and ended up cancelling it. When I asked him why, he responded with, "So Ford can iron out all the little details and issues for 2018 or 2019".

I wonder if they will make any changes to resolve these issues for future MYs.

If they do I'd trade in and up in a heart beat ;-)

 

[ovrlnd]

This is an interesting thread.

I've test driven two Raptors over the last few weeks and came away with the exact same impressions as the OP. The crabbing to the right in the back was particularly noticeable on both trucks. It's a definite kick to the right even on smaller bumps. I drove a G1 Raptor several months ago and I don't remember that feeling at all. In fact, that truck felt really balanced front to rear - much better than any of the regular '15+ F150's I'd driven up to that point.

And I think the armchair analysis here of the problem is spot on. The staggered shocks, the lightweight bed, the lighter springs to compensate, etc. It's a handful of things coming together.

Since I'll tow occasionally, I'd already looked into a set of progressive springs. I contacted Icon last week about a set and they told me they are working on them and are shooting for October availability. Whether you go with Icon or Deaver or whoever else, I suspect that a rear spring upgrade is going to make a big difference on these trucks.

I also think that the staggered shocks will have to go. And I'll have a set of drawers and some other weight in the back so that should help as well. It's a bit disappointing since one of the reasons I wanted a Raptor was that I wanted to leave it stock. Yet here I am thinking about completely changing the rear end.

I think the tire and tire pressure situation is magnifying the suspension problem rather than creating any of the problems in itself. Unless the pressures are noticeably off from one side to the other. I'd be really interested to know how the handling changes with a set of standard KO2's. My guess is that the problem would be magnified even more.

I can only guess that the lightweight bed gave Ford's suspension engineers some big headaches. It just seems like a lot of compromises happening back there, from spring rate to tire sidewall stiffness and probably even the offset shocks were a result. Lighter bed=lighter springs=more chance for hopping or wheel wrap.

Anyway, this my first experience with trucks, so take my impressions with a grain of salt. I'm a BMW guy, wife drives a Merc and we've got an old Porsche in the garage as well, so that's the sort of handling and feel that I'm used to. Coming from that, the best description I can come up with for the F150 handling is just "weird". In contrast, I have no problems whatsoever with the way an F250 feels. They're harsh, of course, but they act like you expect them to. Something about the new F150 feels vague and random. It's like walking around your house in the dark - you know where everything is, but not so well that you have any confidence about not walking into a wall.

 

[bosssho]

Thanks for the support and nice thought out analysis...very much appreciated.

I too agree that the regular E-Rated KO2s would, in theory, make the truck bounce around more...and I JUST last night lowered my PSI, on my Racer Parts Wholesale Tire Gauge to 35 PSI, although at 37 PSI on that Gauge, my truck was reading 40 PSI via the TPMS Sensors...so curious to see what it reads off 35 PSI on the Gauge...and more curious to see how it handles this Friday on my way up north.

I just don't know how guys spending this amount of money for a Truck that's supposed to do this and that and specifically handle certain conditions...that it does not...can kid themselves otherwise vs. look for a solution....

Very interested in a Leaf Spring Kit...so want to keep posted on that.

Do you think a Rear Sway Bar Kit would work on this Truck? Not necessary on the Gen I, but maybe help keep the ass end planted on cornering bumps?

I actually notice, b/c this Truck does in fact have a lot more power, that under hard acceleration, it will jump and skip over bumps in a straight line...

Also curious about a Shock Relocation Kit to keep the shocks in line out back like the Gen Is....

 

[Jimbo]

@bosssho - we're coming out with a bump kit w/ shock relocation and I know deaver is working on their springs. Let me know if you're interested and we can set you up.

 

[bosssho]

@bosssho - we're coming out with a bump kit w/ shock relocation and I know deaver is working on their springs. Let me know if you're interested and we can set you up.

Hell [email protected] is my email...please fill me in, and thank you very much.

 

[Bark beetle]

Most of the trucks I have owned come with staggered shocks, the shock location by itself is definitely not the source of the Gen 2 rear suspension issues. This configuration is used to control wheel hop which all spring over axle designs suffer from. I am 99% sure I will be getting someone's springs when they release combined with a bump kit. The thin pack with the overload just doesn't get it done for my use and they never have, doesn't matter if it is a Toyota, Ford, Dodge. They all had the same basic design for decades. I induced some serious wheel hop yesterday having fun in the gravel and had to chop the throttle. The amount of money I spent on this truck is a bargain compared to my time and money spent on every truck previous to this one. It has flaws but they will be corrected for my needs and the starting point is far ahead of anything else out there.

Another thing all the cold climate drivers need to consider is shock oil temperature. In cold weather the shocks will be much stiffer due to the oil viscosity and handle much differently than warm weather or hard use where they actually get up to operating temperature. You wouldn't notice this on "normal" truck shocks because they are already working hard during normal driving and fade to nonexistence on a washboard dirt road. A 3" shock with an empty bed on a paved road will never even warm up and are just starting to get warm on a washboard road. These have approximately 30% more piston area and I recall the ad saying something like 50% more oil volume than the 2.5" shocks on a truck that weighs less. This truck is setup to go hard in the dirt. There are consequences, just like a dirt bike riding like crap on the street and a street bike not even being rideable in the dirt.


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[bosssho]

Most of the trucks I have owned come with staggered shocks, the shock location by itself is definitely not the source of the Gen 2 rear suspension issues. This configuration is used to control wheel hop which all spring over axle designs suffer from. I am 99% sure I will be getting someone's springs when they release combined with a bump kit. The thin pack with the overload just doesn't get it done for my use and they never have, doesn't matter if it is a Toyota, Ford, Dodge. They all had the same basic design for decades. I induced some serious wheel hop yesterday having fun in the gravel and had to chop the throttle. The amount of money I spent on this truck is a bargain compared to my time and money spent on every truck previous to this one. It has flaws but they will be corrected for my needs and the starting point is far ahead of anything else out there.

Another thing all the cold climate drivers need to consider is shock oil temperature. In cold weather the shocks will be much stiffer due to the oil viscosity and handle much differently than warm weather or hard use where they actually get up to operating temperature. You wouldn't notice this on "normal" truck shocks because they are already working hard during normal driving and fade to nonexistence on a washboard dirt road. A 3" shock with an empty bed on a paved road will never even warm up and are just starting to get warm on a washboard road. These have approximately 30% more piston area and I recall the ad saying something like 50% more oil volume than the 2.5" shocks on a truck that weighs less. This truck is setup to go hard in the dirt. There are consequences, just like a dirt bike riding like crap on the street and a street bike not even being rideable in the dirt.

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My immediate question...knowing The Gen I has wheel hop...but mainly only on pavement when matting the gas from a dig...Is why, if that in line shock system worked so well on uneven ground/pavement would Ford Change it?

Also, with all the R&D going into this thing since the 15 F150 was in development with its Aluminum parts...it still amazes me that they'd go so far backwards on the rear suspension. It might be a bargain of sorts starting point wise, but for 95%+ people buying one it's the finishing point, and w/this 17 Set up it's leaving a lot to be desired vs. the 2010-14 Gen Is is all I am saying.

Hopefully these kits will rectify a lot of it.