Whats with dealers only having 802a raptors and not more base models?

[murph145]

^ dang you got one of them cheap rators JK

I dont care what anyone buys so why should anyone else. Simple fact is more demand for a loaded SCREW vs a base SCAB. End of story.

 

[jaz13]

When did this become a debate about supercrew vs supercabs? apparently rich guys get to buy the most raptors and spend $70K+. I ordered mine and spent $53k.

Both cabs have their purpose. Mine will spend 95% of its time DD duties. I have a supercrew tundra to haul people around if I want to. Guess ford is trying to narrow its buyer base, or at least the dealers believe only dudes who make $200K a year are going to buy a raptor. When that's not the case.

Dudes with money to burn are the only one who can/will pay an ADM during the first year of production. Dealers who understand what most customers want load up on 802a SCEWs and everything else is special order.

 

[GutweinMCP]

Dudes with money to burn are the only one who can/will pay an ADM during the first year of production. Dealers who understand what most customers want load up on 802a SCEWs and everything else is special order.

Agreed jaz13. As someone who orders these for the dealer I work for, unless we have a retail order you have to play to the %'s. It makes for more 802A SCEW's here for sure as most of ours are going to be concrete cowboy trucks and never leave pavement. The people who are buying them locally are coming out of Lariats and 250's and 350's that have all the tech. It is also what dealers/customers out East/West call on and offer way too much money for. I like how the SCAB's look but I think we'd have a harder time moving it.

 

[Craigy]

The way Ford set the options basically forces most buyers/dealers to pick 802A.

When a customer is spending $55,000, $58,000+ on a pickup truck, they typically expect it to have modern conveniences like automatic climate control, and these days now keyless entry. Both of those items don't come unless you tick the 802a box, and you're then looking at a $65,000 truck. That's just two examples.

At this price level, automatic climate control comes standard on anything else. Keyless entry, if not a standard feature on a $50k+ car, is usually part of a low cost package or a standalone option for a few hundred dollars. Instead, Ford makes those features part of a $10,000 package. And again, that's just two examples. There are more.

Compounding that a little further, these days, most buyers spending that much expect new features like radar cruise control (standard on every Toyota, for example), which is another $2,000 on top of the $10,000 package. Tick a couple more boxes and it's a $70,000 purchase, plus tax.

So Ford is fleecing the consumer for what it knows it can extract. Definitely more power to the guys who opt for 800A and 801A trucks.

And yeah, in general, dealers make more money on loaded trucks. There is a ton of money in these trucks and a highly optioned truck makes a lot more money than a low-option truck. Besides price over invoice, there is a ton of money in holdback and other incentives for the dealer to sell a loaded truck. So it's not surprising to see highly optioned Raptors on the lot, but in this case with the unique way Ford chose to set the packages, they're almost all very high spec trucks.

 

[fx4210]

I think all the points in this tread are factors..

ADM: 5k looks much less like a deal breaker on a 70k truck than a 50k Truck

Options: the fact that a lot of "basic" luxury features are tied to the 802a package means that most all dealers are going to order that spec, along with the Supercrew desirability, with the tech package and the moonroof you are looking at most dealers having 69-70k trucks (add in bedliner and the tailgate step and we are closer 71-72k).

The real question which I don't completely understand is why dealers are adding all of the options graphics, beadlocks, carbon interior.. I guess it might go back to the ADM point where the dealers are making the ADM a smaller percent of the trucks MSRP.

I don't think that the dealer is concerned too much about the margin of the options in comparison to the desirability of the truck and ability to mark it up without too much hassle.

 

[MikeEby]

There are small things that take the 802A to the next level that if you don't look closely you miss. Like the body color mirrors, door & tailgate handles. The 8" vs 4.2" dash cluster that IMO make big improvements that warrant the extra coins. Unless you really do your homework you don't know there is a difference. I've learned a bunch by just hanging out here.





Mike

 

[Talbor]

Special cloth.... LOL.

Yea you can't add about of those features for the prices you are quoting, if it all

I'm actually upgrading my 800A for less than those quoted prices.

8" Sync 3 Upgrade (getting parts from car-part.com) - $500
Heated factory seats using factory button - $140
Leather seats from new pull off - $380
802A 8" Instrument Gauge - $650

I could not find a dealer that would sell a 801A or 802A with no appearance options (stickers, carbon fiber) without a mark up, so I bought an 800A under sticker with a couple options after doing some searching on how I can add some of the other options I wanted.

I was able to get my wife on board because she wanted me to get a Lariat well equipped and I could get an 800A for cheaper and add the options for the same price (actually less). If dealers stocked 801A without the options that just drive up the price ($1900 for stickers?!?), then they'd see a lot of guys driving away with Raptors at near sticker than negotiating down Lariats.

 

[Frank N]

There are small things that take the 802A to the next level that if you don't look closely you miss. Like the body color mirrors, door & tailgate handles. The 8" vs 4.2" dash cluster that IMO make big improvements that warrant the extra coins. Unless you really do your homework you don't know there is a difference. I've learned a bunch by just hanging out here.





Mike

It looks different but is it really?
Besides a boost gauge what features does the 8" dash cluster have?

---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

The way Ford set the options basically forces most buyers/dealers to pick 802A.

When a customer is spending $55,000, $58,000+ on a pickup truck, they typically expect it to have modern conveniences like automatic climate control, and these days now keyless entry. Both of those items don't come unless you tick the 802a box, and you're then looking at a $65,000 truck. That's just two examples.

At this price level, automatic climate control comes standard on anything else. Keyless entry, if not a standard feature on a $50k+ car, is usually part of a low cost package or a standalone option for a few hundred dollars. Instead, Ford makes those features part of a $10,000 package. And again, that's just two examples. There are more.

Compounding that a little further, these days, most buyers spending that much expect new features like radar cruise control (standard on every Toyota, for example), which is another $2,000 on top of the $10,000 package. Tick a couple more boxes and it's a $70,000 purchase, plus tax.

So Ford is fleecing the consumer for what it knows it can extract. Definitely more power to the guys who opt for 800A and 801A trucks.

And yeah, in general, dealers make more money on loaded trucks. There is a ton of money in these trucks and a highly optioned truck makes a lot more money than a low-option truck. Besides price over invoice, there is a ton of money in holdback and other incentives for the dealer to sell a loaded truck. So it's not surprising to see highly optioned Raptors on the lot, but in this case with the unique way Ford chose to set the packages, they're almost all very high spec trucks.

Or maybe Ford said, most people are going to want this loaded but we need to make sure they can order a base level SCab for the people that want to use it as originally intended and let them bolt on all the stuff they want to run off road like a ***** ape.

I NEED a Torsen, I do not need a cooled seat, one is an option, one is not. One has practical off road applications, one is good for cooling your ********.

 

[troverman]

I'm actually upgrading my 800A for less than those quoted prices.

8" Sync 3 Upgrade (getting parts from car-part.com) - $500
Heated factory seats using factory button - $140
Leather seats from new pull off - $380
802A 8" Instrument Gauge - $650

I could not find a dealer that would sell a 801A or 802A with no appearance options (stickers, carbon fiber) without a mark up, so I bought an 800A under sticker with a couple options after doing some searching on how I can add some of the other options I wanted.

I was able to get my wife on board because she wanted me to get a Lariat well equipped and I could get an 800A for cheaper and add the options for the same price (actually less). If dealers stocked 801A without the options that just drive up the price ($1900 for stickers?!?), then they'd see a lot of guys driving away with Raptors at near sticker than negotiating down Lariats.

While I applaud you for making these updates, I would caution you on a couple of things:

Just buying an 8" Sync 3 does not mean it will work properly. There are companies that sell these modules meant for owners of base trucks to upgrade. One company I have used in the past is a company called 4DTech from Kentucky. They offer the Sync 3 upgrade for $2000, or $2500 if you want navigation. Part of the problem is programming *you send them your VIN and they program the unit) and part of the problem is that you may be missing other required hardware. For example, the base units have their own audio amplifier. The trucks that come with the 802 package have the Sony system with a remote amp. Likely your new head unit won't be able to play audio with adding an amp.

Heated factory seats using the factory buttons for $140? I'm skeptical. How are you getting the seats heated? Aftermarket heating pad? Complete seats? The harnesses don't appear to be in the floor that you would need. Likewise, you would need the factory front controls panel which would have the heated seat switches. Your truck would need to be programmed to tell the ECU you have the heated seats. Where are the relays and fuses in the power box under the hood to supply current to the heated seats?

Leather seats from the new pull-off I believe. This is quite a bit of work, but I did see take-off Raptor leather seat covers for $400 on ebay. A very do-able and nice upgrade if you are willing to put in a lot of time and are patient with hog-rings.

The 8" instrument cluster. Yes, this is possible. It will cost you an additional $80 to send out your cluster and have the correct mileage programmed. This cannot be done by ForScan. $650 seems cheap (most dealers charge over $800 for the part required in a 150 or Super Duty) but the Raptor cluster is unique to only it. I have seen folks with the Super Duty find one from a pick and pull for $165, but you likely won't find one for a Raptor at that price.

I bought an 800A Crew. I concluded Sync with Nav would realistically be $2500 and I wasn't sure if I wanted to part with that much quid for it. I also concluded heated seats wouldn't be happening. I wanted the power rear slider as well, which is do-able but requires a new roof console (not cheap) plus the actual rear window (quite expensive) and a different roof harness (cheap).

Good luck and keep us posted.

---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------

It looks different but is it really?
Besides a boost gauge what features does the 8" dash cluster have?

---------- Post added at 10:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------



I NEED a Torsen, I do not need a cooled seat, one is an option, one is not. One has practical off road applications, one is good for cooling your ********.

Or maybe Ford said, most people are going to want this loaded but we need to make sure they can order a base level SCab for the people that want to use it as originally intended and let them bolt on all the stuff they want to run off road like a ***** ape.

The Torsen can also be retrofitted after the fact - there is nothing electronic about it! It's a cool feature, but front diff locks would be better (see Power Wagon / Chevy ZR2 / Wrangler Rubicon / G-Wagen) and even then a front diff locker really doesn't add that much capability. Mostly useful in extreme rock-crawling situations, which the Raptor is generally too big for.

As for the 8" screen, besides looking much nicer, it does have a few small features not found in the 4.2" display. It can display basic Nav directions and graphics in the screen so the Sync screen can be on something else. It includes the green turn signal blinkers rendered in the screen instead of stand-alone lights. It includes the gear selector positions rendered in the screen instead of displayed separately. The actual "current gear" readout is displayed in the small cut-out screen in the tachometer instead of on the right side of the 4.2" display. All 10 gears fit cleanly on the big screen, whereas several disappear with cruise control active on the 4.2" screen. The big screen has larger fonts and graphics which make it easier to read. It has the boost gauge plus the gauge can be "swapped" digitally for the transmission temp gauge. Using ForScan, you can actually make the digitally-rendered gauges display real-time values above the transmission and coolant temps, which is cool.

 

[Talbor]

While I applaud you for making these updates, I would caution you on a couple of things:

Just buying an 8" Sync 3 does not mean it will work properly. There are companies that sell these modules meant for owners of base trucks to upgrade. One company I have used in the past is a company called 4DTech from Kentucky. They offer the Sync 3 upgrade for $2000, or $2500 if you want navigation. Part of the problem is programming *you send them your VIN and they program the unit) and part of the problem is that you may be missing other required hardware. For example, the base units have their own audio amplifier. The trucks that come with the 802 package have the Sony system with a remote amp. Likely your new head unit won't be able to play audio with adding an amp.

Heated factory seats using the factory buttons for $140? I'm skeptical. How are you getting the seats heated? Aftermarket heating pad? Complete seats? The harnesses don't appear to be in the floor that you would need. Likewise, you would need the factory front controls panel which would have the heated seat switches. Your truck would need to be programmed to tell the ECU you have the heated seats. Where are the relays and fuses in the power box under the hood to supply current to the heated seats?

Leather seats from the new pull-off I believe. This is quite a bit of work, but I did see take-off Raptor leather seat covers for $400 on ebay. A very do-able and nice upgrade if you are willing to put in a lot of time and are patient with hog-rings.

The 8" instrument cluster. Yes, this is possible. It will cost you an additional $80 to send out your cluster and have the correct mileage programmed. This cannot be done by ForScan. $650 seems cheap (most dealers charge over $800 for the part required in a 150 or Super Duty) but the Raptor cluster is unique to only it. I have seen folks with the Super Duty find one from a pick and pull for $165, but you likely won't find one for a Raptor at that price.

I bought an 800A Crew. I concluded Sync with Nav would realistically be $2500 and I wasn't sure if I wanted to part with that much quid for it. I also concluded heated seats wouldn't be happening. I wanted the power rear slider as well, which is do-able but requires a new roof console (not cheap) plus the actual rear window (quite expensive) and a different roof harness (cheap).

Good luck and keep us posted.

Well, there's a lot to the answers for all those questions. I have most of the parts so far and have started a build thread to detail each of these upgrades - http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f260/other-800a-owners-my-800a-build-thread-58519/ But, I think I can clarify some things easily.

For the Sync 3 8" upgrade, you can use the base unit amp. The 801As do the same. You can program it with FORScan. 4Dtech and OEMRadioSolutions charge that much for their kit because they did the hard part - making the harness, programming the APIM, and sourcing all the parts. If you source all the parts yourself, have some minor electrical DIY skills, and can do some basic changes in FORScan (super, super easy - "programming" is a much scarier word that what it actually involves), you can do it for much cheaper. Props to them for making a plug and play product, but I don't mind spending a couple hours to save a thousand or more. Many XL and XLT owners have done this upgrade on the F-150 forum without any issue with amps. Once I do mine, I'll post a full write-up.

Heated seats for $140 using the 2014 heating elements. They are the same as the 15+ but can be bought separately. The bezel I got for the 8" sync upgrades has the heated seat buttons populated. Again, a little DIY wiring and you're GTG.

These leather seats are going to be a piece of cake vs. the 69 Bronco seats I re-upholstered. Not much ring work since these are zippered covers.

There is an awesome member on another forum that sells the instrument clusters with the mileage and engine hours to match yours, pre-programmed to your VIN and plug and play. Many other non-raptor F-150s have done this upgrade. Pricing varies on what he can get the clusters at, so YMMV. I just wanted to post so others have a ballpark on how much this would run them.

I'm actually a fan of the windowless rear window. I've had a truck before and never really used it. I actually really like the rear window visibility without the vertical bars from the rear sliding window. If a passenger needs to access the bed while the truck is in motion, that's what the side steps are for, right?

BTW - love the lead foot. Such an awesome color. I couldn't find one and black matched my wife's car, so I went black to make her smile.