wanderfalk
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no one has ever had to repair three times and invoked the lemon law? taking back new trucks and replacing with new would wake ford up..
Upgraded IWE
- Thread starter Squatting Dog
- Start date
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OP
OP
Squatting Dog
FRF Addict
Yes, concentrating on making this IWE solution viable/economical. Finally fed up with Ford ****** excuses that they are wear items/abuse/designed as drive line fuse. So I decided to focus on this one (major) issue and fix it.
As you know RCV has been making upgraded axles for the Raptor. They have been running into issues once they upgraded them with destroying IWE almost instantly. I contacted them and RCV has welcomed my crazy ideas with open arms. They see the value of this upgrade. With approximately 400,000 4wd F150 produced a year (3.6 million approx 2004-current year) there is a strong financial incentive to resolve this issue.
We have been brainstorming different solutions from mild to wild (simple replacement upgraded parts, custom hubs to modified f250 hubs). I should be receiving the prototype locking rings after first of the year for "squatting dog testing"..
-Greg (aka Squatting Dog)
As you know RCV has been making upgraded axles for the Raptor. They have been running into issues once they upgraded them with destroying IWE almost instantly. I contacted them and RCV has welcomed my crazy ideas with open arms. They see the value of this upgrade. With approximately 400,000 4wd F150 produced a year (3.6 million approx 2004-current year) there is a strong financial incentive to resolve this issue.
We have been brainstorming different solutions from mild to wild (simple replacement upgraded parts, custom hubs to modified f250 hubs). I should be receiving the prototype locking rings after first of the year for "squatting dog testing"..
-Greg (aka Squatting Dog)
OP
OP
Squatting Dog
FRF Addict
I appreciate everyone's help/advice/support/suggestions.. I am putting a lot of time and effort in resolving problem with these IWE problems.
This solution is designed for my "destroy anything" driving style and should work for everyone else. The locking ring in the IWE is going to be machined and tested with 300m. Which is the same material that RCV uses on their aftermarket axles. This will allow for full torque and power to be transmitted to the hub gear assembly/wheel. Since the axle and hub assembly will be fully locked all the time there will not be the typical wear/engagement problems.
Some people has asked the following questions. I have some answers for you based of alpha testing..
1) With the hubs locked and the axles/front differential turning all the time. How much mpg loss?
Since I got back from Bullrun (5 months). I locked my hubs and have been driving with the front axles turning and averaging 11mpg mixed city/highway driving. So approximately 2-3 mpg loss.
2) Having the front end locked you will have issues with the torsen on dry pavement while turning.
I have not experienced any noticeable difference in turning or handling in any driving conditions (wet/dry/snow/dirt).
3) It will cause premature tire wear from scrubbing the tires with lock front end.
No tire wear or unusual tire wear. The torsen is not a locker and allows for enough slip (speed differential) between front tires to not scrub the tires.
4) You will be pushing the front drive train and lose power/speed/performance.
No real loss, the steering feels slightly heavier but very minimal difference between locked and unlocked. It will still pull hard up to and beyond speed limiter with front locked.
5) You will lose shift on the fly capability...
No true.. Shift on the fly is preformed through the shift motor on the transfer case and not the IWE. The IWE is a fuel saving device designed by Borg warner and Ford to meet ever tightening fuel economy regulations. By having the hubs fully locked all the time, you will have true shift on the fly. As soon as you turn the knob, the shifter motor in the transfer case will direct the power to the front. It will be available immediately and not relying on the failure prone vacuum system to lock the hubs.
6) The IWE act as a drive line fuse and break before there is damage to the drive line.
As of today, no issues/problems have been observed with front end being locked.. With my talks with RCV we have discussed several other material and design options if this does become a problem with new locking rings during testing. Our concern is the hub gears or differential may be the weak link. Until the new locking rings are installed and tested we will not have the answer of this.
7) Will it work with stock axles or only RCV axles?
This upgrade is being designed to work with either stock or RCV axles.
8.) Only torsen equipped Raptors/F150?
This upgrade is designed to work with ANY 2004 to present 4wd F150s.
9) How long or when can I buy them?
There is no current release date or scheduled date at this time. I want to make sure that this upgrade is best solution. We are not going to rush a product out without fully testing it.
10) My IWE are shot, do I need to buy new ones for this upgrade.
No, this it is being designed to work with already damaged IWE or brand new. As long as the teeth on the axle and hub are not damaged there is no need to buy new IWE..
11) How much will the upgrade cost.
I am not certain on the final price, I would like it to be around OEM IWE price point. I have little say or control over the price RCV charges to produce/market this product.
This post have gotten long.. I hope I was able to address most of the questions. I am excited to start testing and finally see this idea in cold hard steel. Want to thank RCV for taking a chance and the many FRF members and vendors that have helped along the way.
If you have any questions, please let me know I will try my best to answer..
Please vote on the poll to help gauge the interest and demand for this upgrade...
Thank you
-Greg (aka Squatting Dog)
This solution is designed for my "destroy anything" driving style and should work for everyone else. The locking ring in the IWE is going to be machined and tested with 300m. Which is the same material that RCV uses on their aftermarket axles. This will allow for full torque and power to be transmitted to the hub gear assembly/wheel. Since the axle and hub assembly will be fully locked all the time there will not be the typical wear/engagement problems.
Some people has asked the following questions. I have some answers for you based of alpha testing..
1) With the hubs locked and the axles/front differential turning all the time. How much mpg loss?
Since I got back from Bullrun (5 months). I locked my hubs and have been driving with the front axles turning and averaging 11mpg mixed city/highway driving. So approximately 2-3 mpg loss.
2) Having the front end locked you will have issues with the torsen on dry pavement while turning.
I have not experienced any noticeable difference in turning or handling in any driving conditions (wet/dry/snow/dirt).
3) It will cause premature tire wear from scrubbing the tires with lock front end.
No tire wear or unusual tire wear. The torsen is not a locker and allows for enough slip (speed differential) between front tires to not scrub the tires.
4) You will be pushing the front drive train and lose power/speed/performance.
No real loss, the steering feels slightly heavier but very minimal difference between locked and unlocked. It will still pull hard up to and beyond speed limiter with front locked.
5) You will lose shift on the fly capability...
No true.. Shift on the fly is preformed through the shift motor on the transfer case and not the IWE. The IWE is a fuel saving device designed by Borg warner and Ford to meet ever tightening fuel economy regulations. By having the hubs fully locked all the time, you will have true shift on the fly. As soon as you turn the knob, the shifter motor in the transfer case will direct the power to the front. It will be available immediately and not relying on the failure prone vacuum system to lock the hubs.
6) The IWE act as a drive line fuse and break before there is damage to the drive line.
As of today, no issues/problems have been observed with front end being locked.. With my talks with RCV we have discussed several other material and design options if this does become a problem with new locking rings during testing. Our concern is the hub gears or differential may be the weak link. Until the new locking rings are installed and tested we will not have the answer of this.
7) Will it work with stock axles or only RCV axles?
This upgrade is being designed to work with either stock or RCV axles.
8.) Only torsen equipped Raptors/F150?
This upgrade is designed to work with ANY 2004 to present 4wd F150s.
9) How long or when can I buy them?
There is no current release date or scheduled date at this time. I want to make sure that this upgrade is best solution. We are not going to rush a product out without fully testing it.
10) My IWE are shot, do I need to buy new ones for this upgrade.
No, this it is being designed to work with already damaged IWE or brand new. As long as the teeth on the axle and hub are not damaged there is no need to buy new IWE..
11) How much will the upgrade cost.
I am not certain on the final price, I would like it to be around OEM IWE price point. I have little say or control over the price RCV charges to produce/market this product.
This post have gotten long.. I hope I was able to address most of the questions. I am excited to start testing and finally see this idea in cold hard steel. Want to thank RCV for taking a chance and the many FRF members and vendors that have helped along the way.
If you have any questions, please let me know I will try my best to answer..
Please vote on the poll to help gauge the interest and demand for this upgrade...
Thank you
-Greg (aka Squatting Dog)
Last edited:
Wilson
FRF Addict
So it's like hub lock outs that are locked all the time?
OP
OP
Squatting Dog
FRF Addict
I knew for some people it would be a deal breaker..
A second or alternative option is still in design phase (still on paper). Which would eliminate the vacuum/spring system and use fluid to control the IWE diaphragm. This would give positive engagement since liquids are considered an incompressible fluid.
A small volume of liquid equal to the expanded volume of the diaphragm would be pushed into the IWE assembly. Which would move the redesigned tapered locking ring into place. Positively locking the hub to the axle and not allowing the locking ring to grind on the hub gear due to partial engagement. They would not be the vacuum leak down durning the times the vehicle is shut off typical of vacuum system also causing partial engagement.
This would be a self contained closed loop system with no tubes/lines only three wires to control the enclosed pump. These wires will be connected to the factory IWE solenoid using OEM type weatherproof connector allowing factory look and function.
This item has a lot of development left to do and some bugs to work out and no timeline is available..
-Greg (aka Squatting Dog)
A second or alternative option is still in design phase (still on paper). Which would eliminate the vacuum/spring system and use fluid to control the IWE diaphragm. This would give positive engagement since liquids are considered an incompressible fluid.
A small volume of liquid equal to the expanded volume of the diaphragm would be pushed into the IWE assembly. Which would move the redesigned tapered locking ring into place. Positively locking the hub to the axle and not allowing the locking ring to grind on the hub gear due to partial engagement. They would not be the vacuum leak down durning the times the vehicle is shut off typical of vacuum system also causing partial engagement.
This would be a self contained closed loop system with no tubes/lines only three wires to control the enclosed pump. These wires will be connected to the factory IWE solenoid using OEM type weatherproof connector allowing factory look and function.
This item has a lot of development left to do and some bugs to work out and no timeline is available..
-Greg (aka Squatting Dog)
Wilson
FRF Addict
I'm going to get post happy so just ignore me.
How Do Spring Return Actuators Work Using a Belimo AFA24-SR - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qxvvdGUpd-A
this is what I want.
http://www.highprecisioninc.com/index.htm
How Do Spring Return Actuators Work Using a Belimo AFA24-SR - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qxvvdGUpd-A
this is what I want.
http://www.highprecisioninc.com/index.htm
Last edited:
AZEngineer
Full Access Member
I read the entire thread and several others and I'm still not clear on why it fails. I understand how it is supposed to work, and I certainly can imagine how engaging gears under load it bound to create wear. I have also read the threads about questionable vacuum causing it to engage and disengage damaging it.
What specifically stresses it and causes failure?
What can I do to reduce the chances of this damage?
thanks...joe
What specifically stresses it and causes failure?
What can I do to reduce the chances of this damage?
thanks...joe
Wilson
FRF Addict
the vacuum let's loose (leaks) and the gears rub. Thus causing it to not fully engage and pop out of gear.
---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------
400 foot LB of torque and this don't cut it
---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------
400 foot LB of torque and this don't cut it
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