The FRF Shock Shootout! All pre event details and discussion here

[BIRDMAN]

yea id be willing to buy a slightly used (HAHA) pair of shocks for like half off

King mentioned a possible scenario like this, I haven't gotten details yet though.

 

[BigJ]

Right on pirate. If the bumps are set at 0psi, then you would be asking the bump stop kit to do something it wasn't designed to do. Actually, not entirely true, the bump pad would do what it's designed to do: not deform. No good.

This would not accomplish the main goal of keeping the donor truck safe, isn't that the point? Sure, the shock performance won't be affected by an aftermarket bump, but that's a double edged sword.

Honestly I don't mean to beat the point up, and it seriously doesn't matter until we have a truck to consider, but this is where I think something is getting lost.

Mechanically speaking, haven't the Outlaw kit or the RPG kit been engineered to take the hit of an axle coming at full speed into an already fully compressed stop? Yeah its gonna hurt like hell, yeah the rear is gonna kick like a bucking bronco, but the kit will disperse the energy and resist damage. Wont it?

My point is that if we're stuck with no OEM bump stop + frame reinforcement (like the Stage 1 you mentioned) and instead have a stage 2 setup (to keep with the analogy) our choices become either keep the after market stop in place or remove it.

If we lose it, we run the risk of metal crashing into metal in spots not designed to take the punishment.

If we keep it, the question becomes at what pressure does it get set at? The general consensus so far has been that a fully functioning aftermarket stop will impede a fair shock test. So, the logical conclusion would be to take it out of the equation by either removing it (see above) or keeping it but setting it to zero psi. In the latter case, at the very least we'll have something hitting something else in a spot where its been designed to hit.

Does all that make sense? Its kind of a process of elimination / lesser of evils sort of choice we're making.

Now with all that said, pirate's idea really sounds maybe ideal. I'd want ICON's thoughts on it (since again they're the only player in town so far), but it seems we'd (1) get the best frame reinforcement approach currently available, (2) we'd get to keep the bump stops and let them work as designed and (3) we'd not interfere with how the shock performs within "stock travel" limits.

By the way, how much does an aftermarket bump stop solution increase travel back there? I never thought to ask...

 

[BIRDMAN]

The second part was more directed at you J. What if you narrow it down to needing a stock truck and approach one of the bump stop kit manufacturers to kick in here for a little free promo of their kit. It makes your life easier doesn't it? I would do it if my name were Connor Jarrett or Ryan

 

[BigJ]

Because I've never used an event like this in that way. In fairness to everyone involved and those watching, I need to stay hands off when it comes to promising anyone anything who stands to gain from this financially.

But hey, if a certain forum owner and/or admin wanted to throw a little weight around, that's their business.

 

[ICONRep]

Honestly I don't mean to beat the point up, and it seriously doesn't matter until we have a truck to consider, but this is where I think something is getting lost.

Mechanically speaking, haven't the Outlaw kit or the RPG kit been engineered to take the hit of an axle coming at full speed into an already fully compressed stop? Yeah its gonna hurt like hell, yeah the rear is gonna kick like a bucking bronco, but the kit will disperse the energy and resist damage. Wont it?

My point is that if we're stuck with no OEM bump stop + frame reinforcement (like the Stage 1 you mentioned) and instead have a stage 2 setup (to keep with the analogy) our choices become either keep the after market stop in place or remove it.

If we lose it, we run the risk of metal crashing into metal in spots not designed to take the punishment.

If we keep it, the question becomes at what pressure does it get set at? The general consensus so far has been that a fully functioning aftermarket stop will impede a fair shock test. So, the logical conclusion would be to take it out of the equation by either removing it (see above) or keeping it but setting it to zero psi. In the latter case, at the very least we'll have something hitting something else in a spot where its been designed to hit.

Does all that make sense? Its kind of a process of elimination / lesser of evils sort of choice we're making.

Now with all that said, pirate's idea really sounds maybe ideal. I'd want ICON's thoughts on it (since again they're the only player in town so far), but it seems we'd (1) get the best frame reinforcement approach currently available, (2) we'd get to keep the bump stops and let them work as designed and (3) we'd not interfere with how the shock performs within "stock travel" limits.

By the way, how much does an aftermarket bump stop solution increase travel back there? I never thought to ask...

A lot of the ride characteristics and road feel (and one of the weaknesses of the platform) is due to the rigidity of the rear frame. The variation in bracketry between bump kits will affect (and improve)the street ride quality significantly. A weld on air bump kit at 0psi vs. a stock truck with a stock bump stop is nowhere near equal, street chatter will be better and bottom out will be worse with the air bump kit(at 0psi).
Position of bottom out is also a big factor. The bump zone of the shock is only the last 2" or so depending brand. If an air bump limits travel by even 3/4" compared to the factory stop there is a huge opportunity for energy dissipation that will not be realized. The additional width of the air bump will also affect bump position in an articulated bottom (most are) vs straight bottom and limit travel

The best situation IF the truck has an air bump kit is that the air bump be removed entirely (leave Brackets) and the factory elastomer bump reinstalled. AND that the bracketry between the vehicles be of the same construction

 

[BigJ]

A lot of the ride characteristics and road feel (and one of the weaknesses of the platform) is due to the rigidity of the rear frame. The variation in bracketry between bump kits will affect (and improve)the street ride quality significantly. A weld on air bump kit at 0psi vs. a stock truck with a stock bump stop is nowhere near equal, street chatter will be better and bottom out will be worse with the air bump kit(at 0psi).
Position of bottom out is also a big factor. The bump zone of the shock is only the last 2" or so depending brand. If an air bump limits travel by even 3/4" compared to the factory stop there is a huge opportunity for energy dissipation that will not be realized. The additional width of the air bump will also affect bump position in an articulated bottom (most are) vs straight bottom and limit travel

The best situation IF the truck has an air bump kit is that the air bump be removed entirely (leave Brackets) and the factory elastomer bump reinstalled. AND that the bracketry between the vehicles be of the same construction

Gotcha. I do not think reinstalling the OEM stop is a realistic option in this scenario.

Just to be 110% clear: Setting aside frame concerns, are you saying that in your opinion the only way to derive a fair comparison between shocks, and shocks alone, is to test on a bone stock truck?

 

[Wilson]

whether the psi is set at .5 or 1 or 2 or what ever it has to be set the same for all shocks. IMO the best test would be with om bump stop just saying then the test go's from that point on. most with the bump stop must be happy or it's not working. What I am looking at is when the om shock ware out and if I had to pay out of pocket I would possibly go with a different shock. brand would depend on what they have to offer.

 

[pat'sRAPTOR]

I know that I've hit the rear end so hard that I've pinched off the rubber ring around my bump stop that acts like a measuring device to see how far your stop has moved so I had to have hit it pretty hard to pinch that ring and rip it off and the bump is at 200 psi from RPG. Granted we won't be drivin as hard as I was to do this but it's still good to have something there like you said J, either it be stock bump or aftermarket aired down bump. But ill shut up with the bump talk haha let's wait and see who's truck we got first.

It may seem like all we are doing is going on and on but for the moment I think we've come a long way. Now granted we only have one shock manufacturer on board for now, Icon, and we can't thank you guys enough for helping out too you guys rock! I guess we will see what happened when the others decide to play. If not no biggie we start asking vendors

 

[Wilson]

yes bone stock or just a regular f150 or what ever make don't mater we are testing shocks

 

[BigJ]

Wilson while I agree life would be much easier on us in theory, in practice I am against the idea of using just any F150. I do not believe the results would fairly represent what any customer might expect to enjoy when installing BrandX on their Raptor. The F150 is just too different an animal.