Stage 4 CRP Turbos Revisted (ZFGRACING)

[Guy]

I’m being as honest as I can.

as you all know... the last version of this build with the dyno tune from the shop... it was very very disappointing.... and at that time I really believed that it was technical limitations of the engine and parts based on the situation and I was wrong.

No intention on my part to discredit anyone. I believe the first shop did their best with a first time build but just Were not familiar enough with this platform to extract the right power. If it wasn’t for them.... I wouldn’t have these hard parts installed.

I don’t know ZFG from anyone. I saw his name on CRP and searched him out on the forums. So I don’t have any vested interest or other relationships to cloud my opinion of the work he did.

He’s phenomenal. Until you try him... you won’t understand what I’m saying. I had zero hopes that he was going to do anything more or better than what I had already purchased, and he proved me entirely wrong!

I assume he does tunes for stock turbos and bolt ons and such too. If you’re bored snd have a few bucks to spend... you may want to see what he can do for you too.

 

[jrm]

What would be a better option for e85? Port fuel injectors or hpfp-60? And what would be the estimated costs to install? And can I switch between e85 and 93/91 (if out west) easily?

 

[zfgracing]

What would be a better option for e85? Port fuel injectors or hpfp-60? And what would be the estimated costs to install? And can I switch between e85 and 93/91 (if out west) easily?

If you are doing bigger turbos and don't mind a little longer install I recommend doing the port fuel injector upgrade. The cost difference just didn't out weigh the benefits. For FIC 1000cc port fuel injectors you are looking at $655 vs $2500 for the hpfp-60. Also because the the Gen 2 uses a really small cam lobe you still really are not getting that much displacement out of the pump, so the total capacity still really isn't that high. I would need to go back and crunch my data some more, to get a better idea of how much hp a 60 would support with the stock port injectors. I'm sure it would be fine on the stock motor because the stage 4 and 5 turbos aren't going to reach their full potential safely anyway, it would take a built motor for that.

1000cc plus injectors on the other hand and well you're going to be good for every think those turbos can throw at it. On e85 the 1000cc injectors are basically enough 600 hp at 65% duty cycle plus the factory di system which is enough ~300 so that's around 900 hp crank. Those are rough numbers like I said, I would need to sit down and do the full math again.

Now on the flip side the more fuel you can get in via the di system the better off you are, especially when you are really pushing it. Because the di system is injecting directly into the cylinder, and e85 is ethanol meaning that as it evaporates it absorbs heat, it's effectively directly cooling the combustion chamber. The evaporative cooling is what makes ethanol king on di fuel system, with 100% and di spark knock is virtually nonexistent meaning you can run right up to Max brake torque timing (mbt timing) which is exactly what it sounds like, it's the most spark you can run before the cylinder pressure becomes non productive.

That's why I'm always adamant that if at all possible everyone should be running E85.


Well that kind of turned into a long winded response... lol

I guess moral of the story is the cost benefit ratio leans towards 1000cc injectors. And yes we can run pump gas on on the 1000cc injectors without major consequence. To switch back and forth you just have to run the tank down and flash a new tune when you fill up.

Now on a stock turbo application I could go either way, the hpfp Evo is expensive but it has a lot of benefits. For people that aren't that mechanically inclined it's pretty easy install and it's easy to put on and take off if the need be.

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[jrm]

Oh, wow, thank you for helping with this forum. It's clear you are really an expert. Currently I have the CR performance manifolds, stage 4, IC, tubes, CAI, turbo adapters, downpipes, cutback. MPT dynotuned that set up to around 530.6 RWHP/496.9.

I'm not sure how that will compare to Guy's numbers, but fundamentally I don't want to destroy the engine. I can get e85 super easy in NE Florida--there's a GATE station 5 minutes from my house OTW to everything, but I also need to be able to run 93 well and also run 91 well when we take road trips out west.

There is a great performance shop that'll install everything. So even with this setup you'd say 1000 injectors and nothing else, and then change tunes as needed (like when there's only 91)?

What numbers would I be looking at you think before I put the engine at too much risk?

 

[zfgracing]

Oh, wow, thank you for helping with this forum. It's clear you are really an expert. Currently I have the CR performance manifolds, stage 4, IC, tubes, CAI, turbo adapters, downpipes, cutback. MPT dynotuned that set up to around 530.6 RWHP/496.9.

I'm not sure how that will compare to Guy's numbers, but fundamentally I don't want to destroy the engine. I can get e85 super easy in NE Florida--there's a GATE station 5 minutes from my house OTW to everything, but I also need to be able to run 93 well and also run 91 well when we take road trips out west.

There is a great performance shop that'll install everything. So even with this setup you'd say 1000 injectors and nothing else, and then change tunes as needed (like when there's only 91)?

What numbers would I be looking at you think before I put the engine at too much risk?




View attachment 159611

Your peak torque looks a little late ( could be just what RPM Mike tipped in at) you power is on par with what I would expect on 93, hard to say for sure without a stock baseline because raptors seem to dyno all over the place. On e85 we would be looking to keep the torque low (550 wheel) and bring the power up. I start to get uncomfortable in the upper 500s for hp on raptor. It all depends, your setup is pretty efficient based on the mods that you have, so depending on how the tune looks you might be able to take a stab at 600 without "pushing it". Everyone should be aware of the risks as they go though. Obviously going up in power increases the risk of a failure and at a certain point which I would say High 500 low 600 horsepower, on a raptor the risk is going to start increasing exponential.

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[jrm]

Ah, thank you. And to handle more power a new RMB short block, I guess? But do you think the 580/550 range is relatively "safe" or 560/540 would be a better idea? It's gonna cost like $2000 to get the parts, install, tuning I'd guess.

 

[zfgracing]

Ah, thank you. And to handle more power a new RMB short block, I guess? But do you think the 580/550 range is relatively "safe" or 560/540 would be a better idea? It's gonna cost like $2000 to get the parts, install, tuning I'd guess.

580 is relatively safe so long as the torque is managed well.

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[Mister Pinky]

I’m real curious to see the dyno graphs OP. Glad the truck came together for you.

 

[dillard09]

Hey ZFG, been talking alot to Guy about what you have done for him. Have been wondering what you could do for me. I want some pow pow but still want to be able to set the cruise at 80 and roll. I have 93 and E85 regular here in South Texas but I travel alot in the truck so 93 is not always available.
RMB Stage 2 forged short block
Stock port injectors and fuel pump
Ported heads
Stage 4 turbos and big bore manifolds
Kooks downpipes and SPD adapters
XDI-EVO HPFP
SVC FMIC and Turbosmart BOV
AFE Intake, Boost tubes, and Borla exhaust
Whats your thoughts?

 

[zfgracing]

Hey ZFG, been talking alot to Guy about what you have done for him. Have been wondering what you could do for me. I want some pow pow but still want to be able to set the cruise at 80 and roll. I have 93 and E85 regular here in South Texas but I travel alot in the truck so 93 is not always available.
RMB Stage 2 forged short block
Stock port injectors and fuel pump
Ported heads
Stage 4 turbos and big bore manifolds
Kooks downpipes and SPD adapters
XDI-EVO HPFP
SVC FMIC and Turbosmart BOV
AFE Intake, Boost tubes, and Borla exhaust
Whats your thoughts?

Grab an injector upgrade and we can do 91 93 and e85 tunes for ya. That rmb motor should be able to take everything we can throw at it, we just can't get too carried away on the actual boost pressure with the stock valve springs.

What part of Texas are you in?

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