Serious questions for those who are convinced that an Ecoboost replacement is coming

[Truckzor]

Wow dude, you are so friggin smart that every auto company and government agency should be begging you to come work for them. Clearly you know more about engines than everyone else. How come you are wasting time on an internet forum instead of saving the world from ignorance?

What you are attempting to do here is called an ad hominem fallacy. Unintelligent people often resort to this after their ignorance has been put on display.

Since you are so smart, figure me this one. Why is my 2017 Raptor significantly faster than my neighbor's 2014 6.2L, all while getting 4mpg better than he does? For some reason the facts don't seem to be lining up on your side.

Simple physics, my friend.

Roughly, the math looks like this:

6200/411 = 15 lbs / horsepower
5700/450 = 12.7 lbs / horsepower

With respect to the alleged fuel mileage advantage, that comes from the reduced weight and additional gearing.

Unlike you, I have no problem with facts, or basic math, or logic.

 

[jaz13]

What you are attempting to do here is called an ad hominem fallacy. Unintelligent people often resort to this after their ignorance has been put on display.



Simple physics, my friend.

Roughly, the math looks like this:

6200/411 = 15 lbs / horsepower
5700/450 = 12.7 lbs / horsepower

With respect to the alleged fuel mileage advantage, that comes from the reduced weight and additional gearing.

Unlike you, I have no problem with facts, or basic math, or logic.

FYI: difference in weight between a fully loaded 2014 and fully loaded 2017 is only about 150 pounds. Cooled seats, rear passenger airbags, and twin panel moonroof weight a lot and just like every other new vehicle, the 2017 Raptor suffers from feature bloat. The quoted 400 lb savings is only evident on the stripper models.

And when comparing to my neighbor, he is a big dude and has at least 100lbs on me. I doubt the 50lb difference between our trucks accounts for the acceleration or MPG differences you are claiming.


The following is for other people who are reading this thread since you already have everything figured out.

To clarify the point about lean/rich, I'm talking about lean of peak EGT (exhaust gas temperature) operation and rich of peak EGT operation.

Peak EGT occurs when there is the perfect ratio of fuel and air where every molecule of air and fuel is used and there is no excess of either in the combustion chamber. This results in maximum power, but it also causes the hottest operating temperatures. Moving the mixture in either direction (rich or lean) causes the EGT to fall.

In the lean direction, you are introducing less fuel and naturally temperatures will fall because there is less fuel to burn. On the rich side, you are adding more fuel to the chamber and that unburned fuel will take heat away with it. In the carburetor days, this is the way engines were set to run and is why you always smell fuel in the exhaust of old cars. But through the wizardry of computer controls, engines can be safely run lean of peak without fear of overheating and there is a roughly 30% savings in fuel by running lean of peak EGT.

So when I say air cooling, I'm not talking external cooling fins like you have on your lawnmower, I'm talking about running more air through the cylinder than necessary to burn the fuel in the cylinder. The more excess air you run through the cylinder, the cooler it will be. This is no different than pumping excess fuel through a cylinder to cool it down, with the one exception that it is cheaper to use extra air than extra fuel.

But hey, other than that, you know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[Truckzor]

FYI: difference in weight between a fully loaded 2014 and fully loaded 2017 is only about 150 pounds. Cooled seats, rear passenger airbags, and twin panel moonroof weight a lot and just like every other new vehicle, the 2017 Raptor suffers from feature bloat. The quoted 400 lb savings is only evident on the stripper models.

And when comparing to my neighbor, he is a big dude and has at least 100lbs on me. I doubt the 50lb difference between our trucks accounts for the acceleration or MPG differences you are claiming.

Sigh. You're just not very bright, are you? Your neighbor's truck allegedly weighs 150 pounds more than yours. Your neighbor allegedly weighs 100 pounds more than you. And you think there is a 50 pound difference between your trucks when you run each other?

The following is for other people who are reading this thread since you already have everything figured out.

To clarify the point about lean/rich, I'm talking about lean of peak EGT (exhaust gas temperature) operation and rich of peak EGT operation.

Peak EGT occurs when there is the perfect ratio of fuel and air where every molecule of air and fuel is used and there is no excess of either in the combustion chamber. This results in maximum power, but it also causes the hottest operating temperatures. Moving the mixture in either direction (rich or lean) causes the EGT to fall.

In the lean direction, you are introducing less fuel and naturally temperatures will fall because there is less fuel to burn. On the rich side, you are adding more fuel to the chamber and that unburned fuel will take heat away with it. In the carburetor days, this is the way engines were set to run and is why you always smell fuel in the exhaust of old cars. But through the wizardry of computer controls, engines can be safely run lean of peak without fear of overheating and there is a roughly 30% savings in fuel by running lean of peak EGT.

So when I say air cooling, I'm not talking external cooling fins like you have on your lawnmower, I'm talking about running more air through the cylinder than necessary to burn the fuel in the cylinder. The more excess air you run through the cylinder, the cooler it will be. This is no different than pumping excess fuel through a cylinder to cool it down, with the one exception that it is cheaper to use extra air than extra fuel.

Literally no one runs an automotive engine the way you are describing. There's too much risk of detonation at leaner air/fuel ratios. It's just not done. Here, in the real world, turbo motors and in fact all forced induction motors are run richer than their NA counterparts.

But hey, other than that, you know exactly what you are talking about.

I realize you thought you had me with that nonsense you copy/pasted from Dom over at the 2JZ forum, but you didn't, because I have reality on my side, my friend. Your little turbo motor runs on the rich side to keep cool.

 

[jaz13]

Sigh. You're just not very bright, are you? Your neighbor's truck allegedly weighs 150 pounds more than yours. Your neighbor allegedly weighs 100 pounds more than you. And you think there is a 50 pound difference between your trucks when you run each other?



Literally no one runs an automotive engine the way you are describing. There's too much risk of detonation at leaner air/fuel ratios. It's just not done. Here, in the real world, turbo motors and in fact all forced induction motors are run richer than their NA counterparts.



I realize you thought you had me with that nonsense you copy/pasted from Dom over at the 2JZ forum, but you didn't, because I have reality on my side, my friend. Your little turbo motor runs on the rich side to keep cool.

I have no idea who Dom is or what 2JZ forum is, but maybe if all the dumb people around you are telling you the same thing, maybe, just maybe everyone around you are not the dumb ones.

When you see Elvis, tell him I said "hi".

 

[Truckzor]

I have no idea who Dom is or what 2JZ forum is, but maybe if all the dumb people around you are telling you the same thing, maybe, just maybe everyone around you are not the dumb ones.

Bro, I think you need to take your own advice. You are literally the only one saying your turbo motor runs lean to keep cool. Literally. The only one.

This is easily verifiable. Hook it up to a wideband and see for yourself. I have one on my truck, by the way, so I know exactly how mine is tuned.

When you see Elvis, tell him I said "hi".

 

[kandewinn]

I am at 9200 miles and the truck is still flawless.

10K with same result. Have nothing to complain about. Guess I'm stuck in limbo on the "Wait and Hate" list.

 

[jaz13]

Bro, I think you need to take your own advice. You are literally the only one saying your turbo motor runs lean to keep cool. Literally. The only one.

This is easily verifiable. Hook it up to a wideband and see for yourself. I have one on my truck, by the way, so I know exactly how mine is tuned.

I want to note that I had hoped VW's diesel fiasco would trigger regulators to get more realistic with their testing strategies. Then this whole nonsensical idea about turbo engines being fuel efficient would go right out the window.

Yep, you convinced me. N/A engines are more efficient than turbo engines and this turbo nonsense is nothing more than giant conspiracy between the government and the automotive industry. Sounds about right.

 

[Truckzor]

Yep, you convinced me. N/A engines are more efficient than turbo engines and this turbo nonsense is nothing more than giant conspiracy between the government and the automotive industry. Sounds about right.

So you're not going to hook your truck to a wideband?

Ok then how about this idea. Get your truck tuned to run nice and lean, you know, to keep it cool, then take it out and really thrash it.

Report back.

 

[WhatExit?]

A customer let me drive his GEN2 for a few miles. It feels a little laggy cruising around town compared to a GEN1. Probably more to do with the trans tuning. Definitely a quick truck when you want it to be though.

Some of the German turbo cars are insane with how they've eliminated lag.

Really?! What mode was it in - the factory "Best MPG mode" or did you try it in Sport Mode?

Have you driven the truck with a Pedal Commander in it? Tell me about "little laggy" then please!

Another genius at work

 

[Sasquatch77]

Really?! What mode was it in - the factory "Best MPG mode" or did you try it in Sport Mode?

Have you driven the truck with a Pedal Commander in it? Tell me about "little laggy" then please!

Another genius at work

So funny- all the drivability issues surfacing