Pedal Commander! Awesomeness!

[WhatExit?]

What we are trying to do is determine what level of testing was done during the development of this product.

I'm curious...how do you expect to find this out? Can you find this out about other products like superchargers, larger turbos, downpipes, exhaust systems, oil catch cans, bump stops, shocks, etc., etc?

It's interesting to me to see the public "trying to determine what level of testing was done during the development of (any automotive) product" and what the results of your efforts are.

 

[Aaron]

***Real life situation of a mass produced car showing EMC problems from a multi Billion dollar company in the real world.


12 Tests vehicles are driving down I-75 in Flint, Michigan. While driving past Bishop Airport 10 of the 12 cars shut off almost instantly and the drivers coasted to the side of the road. The other 2 pulled over and backed up to see what the problem is.

All 10 cars reported that the Cluster was INOP. Fast forward 3 hours, I receive a phone call and looked on a map to where this issue was. The Radar for Bishop airport is very close to the Expressway. Through back channels a call was made from the OEM to the FAA to Bishop to switch to the other Radar array.

The moment they switched the cars cluster turned back on. They started and drove away.

This cluster had over 5000 hours of design into it. Passed Design Validation EMC testing.

So why did this happen?

Because the micro manufacture changed the chip design and it wasn't passed along. The clusters where then EMC tested again and all 12 failed.

Why didn't all 12 fail in the real world?

A lot of things effect EMC and the way it couples into the product. Placement of a cellphone on the dash or the use of a Walkie Talkie for instance can drastically change how a product performs. Possibly the wiring harness was routed slightly differently.

A 4w Baofang radio on high outputs roughly 500 v/m at .5M from the antenna. The Radar Pulse test for non saftey equipment is only 300 v/m. Up until 5 years ago no one really tested for these scenarios of cell phones and Walkie Talkies. But now they do, ISO-11452-9.

In the end the problem was solved and there are over 1 Million of these clusters on the road today.

Adding something to the Throttle position system isn't the same as adding a K&N Intake, supercharger or even a tune. None of those things have the ability to falsely manipulate the signal or heavily distort it in a High RF Environment. With enough RF energy and Pulse packets the device would think that you are on the gas when you are not. Its how this workings. All you need is a source (RF) a victim(PCB in line, pedal thing) and a effective antenna(PCB trace, wire something to couple to).


1 sample of 1 product from Design to Release for Automotive EMC testing alone, not electrical or environmental is over $35k.

Im not saying that the PC did or didn't have testing(that is just a small piece, just because it was tested doesn't mean it passed) or did or didn't pass. I am here just relaying the real world issues it can cause.

Also just because you test and pass EMC doesn't mean that your product is a good product. EMC is how it interacts with the RF world nothing about how it preforms under normal conditions.

I'm curious...how do you expect to find this out? Can you find this out about other products like superchargers, larger turbos, downpipes, exhaust systems, oil catch cans, bump stops, shocks, etc., etc?

It's interesting to me to see the public "trying to determine what level of testing was done during the development of (any automotive) product" and what the results of your efforts are.

Look above at the part of Kanakry's post that I highlighted. This product is not the same as those you mentioned. Sure those things you mentioned could also malfunction, but they don't manipulate signals sent by OEM systems.

As far as how I, as well as others, expect to find this out; we've asked Pedal Commander, who has given us a 30 day ETA on information about how it was tested (we've already got some). I'm also pursuing information about it on my own. Then as a last resort, one may get run through the tests we are asking about to determine results for ourselves.

 

[Pedal Commander]

These test cost quite a bit of money to run, mainly because of equipment cost. But I'm sure I can find some down time in Q1 of 2018 if someone wanted to send one over.

Let me see what I can do. Our "sponsored" guidelines are pretty strict, so for something like this, I need approval. I'll be in touch

Ok so first of all, PC as we know it does not manufacture the units. They get them from a company based in Ankara, Turkey named Vitalen Auto Performance.

I work for Vitalen Auto Performance, it's stamped on my paychecks and my emails. Pedal Commander and Chipwerke are both products under the VAP umbrella. We design and manufacture all our own products in Turkey (although some design influence has come from our office here in California for some upcoming new stuff).

 

[Kanakry]

Let me see what I can do. Our "sponsored" guidelines are pretty strict, so for something like this, I need approval. I'll be in touch

I'm not asking for a unit. I'm not even sure I will have time to test it. As stated these test cost Ten's of Thousands of dollars to run. Right now we are booked into March, which is the same time our ALSE Chamber will come online.

I would need the Pinout and schematic so I could build support system to correctly test the device. In addition, this wouldn't be an official test, nor would you receive and official report because you have not paid for the testing. This type of thing isn't something that is taken lightly. We have to conform to strict A2LA guidelines.

 

[Pedal Commander]

I'm not asking for a unit. I'm not even sure I will have time to test it. As stated these test cost Ten's of Thousands of dollars to run. Right now we are booked into March, which is the same time our ALSE Chamber will come online.

I would need the Pinout and schematic so I could build support system to correctly test the device. In addition, this wouldn't be an official test, nor would you receive and official report because you have not paid for the testing. This type of thing isn't something that is taken lightly. We have to conform to strict A2LA guidelines.

Understood. In that case, it just sounds like a big waste of time for the both of us.

 

[Pedal Commander]

I think this is the fastest response I've ever gotten in a request to Turkey, haha.

 

[Gilligan]

I think this is the fastest response I've ever gotten in a request to Turkey, haha.

lol the first one of those has to do with the quality of the business itself, but it’s outdated by over 7 years. The second has to do with environmental management but is outdated by about 11years, and the last one has to do with occupational health and safety management of the business itself.

So none of these pertain to what we are asking for.

 

[pjones]

Understood. In that case, it just sounds like a big waste of time for the both of us.

Does it? Kanakry is willing to provide test results for free, and you feel this is a waste of time? Even if the results are inconclusive, it would be more data than you have now. And he isn’t even asking for a unit from you.

 

[Kanakry]

I think this is the fastest response I've ever gotten in a request to Turkey, haha.

None of those have anything to do with EMC.

Show me a certificate of the test location. It will look something like this. This will show the scope of testing they are accredited to do.

Does it? Kanakry is willing to provide test results for free, and you feel this is a waste of time? Even if the results are inconclusive, it would be more data than you have now. And he isn’t even asking for a unit from you.

Ill get a unit for a friend then run the testing. But this isn't a charity case where PC gets free test data. There really isn't inconclusive results in EMC. Its a pretty firm Conforms or Non Conformance. It is then up to the customer to decide if they are willing to take the risk depending on the non conformance.

This testing would be 100% the identical testing that the TPS, ETB and every other piece of electronic equipment the Automotive world buys and produces.

 

[MGD]

Does Whipple do this type of certification on their products?