Market abuse

[jamanrr]

There is no problem, though. If no one bought these vehicles that are marked up, the dealers would lower the price. People are buying them so prices stay up. Market determines the price. That applies to anything. That’s how our almost all of our economy works. If you had a lot full of $100,000 F150s and no one bought them, guess what would happen?

When the old body style GT500 came out, I wanted one and went to look at them. Dealer was asking 12K over sticker. I said “I don’t want to pay 12K over sticker” so I didn’t buy it. Then I went about my day.

What if you had a house that 10 people were willing to pay you a million dollars for but the tax auditors site said it was appraised at 750K, would you sell it to one of the people with a million dollars in hand or the guy saying “but the auditors site suggests it’s worth $750,000 so you should sell it to me for that”?

That isn't what is happening though, Ford (I tend to believe) could be putting more models into the market stream than they are. They are not because they are milking this for all its worth. They are selling Trucks for MSRP plus so they are making more money than they could if they had sent 10 times the amount of trucks to the dealers. Eventually it will be a dealer order model where dealers will be nothing more than boutiques for ordered sales like in the old days where you mail ordered what you want. I am not paying 20-40k mark up on a new Raptor not going to do it. Hell I offered 10k more than MSRP to dealer and they wouldn't take it and honestly I am glad they didn't. When the market stabilizes people are going to be walking away from their 100-120k regular old Raptors and be so upside down that they will never get the money back out of it.

Lets face it there really is no penalty for bad credit just higher rates and larger payments.

 

[Frogger22]

That isn't what is happening though, Ford (I tend to believe) could be putting more models into the market stream than they are. They are not because they are milking this for all its worth. They are selling Trucks for MSRP plus so they are making more money than they could if they had sent 10 times the amount of trucks to the dealers. Eventually it will be a dealer order model where dealers will be nothing more than boutiques for ordered sales like in the old days where you mail ordered what you want. I am not paying 20-40k mark up on a new Raptor not going to do it. Hell I offered 10k more than MSRP to dealer and they wouldn't take it and honestly I am glad they didn't. When the market stabilizes people are going to be walking away from their 100-120k regular old Raptors and be so upside down that they will never get the money back out of it.

Lets face it there really is no penalty for bad credit just higher rates and larger payments.

You could be right on that market manipulation by companies to superficially raise prices. I’m sure many companies are certainly going to do that for as long as they can until we have an equilibrium in the markets. But I personally do not think there is any way Ford is doing that. I think corporate level Ford is purely in desperation mode to pump out everything they can. They are getting tons of bad coverage for these rollouts especially on things like the Bronco and Gen3 and angry customers and I think they would love it if every human that wanted their vehicles got one. Also if they do keep supply low for high demand and other companies don’t do it then Ford would get crushed by competitors which is why the market works well. You already see it everywhere in this forum as a small size example with Lots of guys here wanting Raptors and can’t afford them currently or don’t want to pay that ADM or can’t wait for one so they buy another truck such as other F-150s or Rams or Toyota’s etc….I think it’s a pessimistic view and would highly doubt its some organized / intentional plot to squeeze some extra money out of some wealthier folks to turn off the populace. Ford is a manufacturer for the masses and are not Lamborghini.

Another way to look at it, Ford has a full work force that is used to pumping out all the vehicles at full speed and I think there is no way they are intentionally slowing that down. Just a quick google search says Ford has around 183,000 employees. If Ford was serious about slowing the pace just to make more profits there would have to be some massive layoffs. They would not sustain their normal workforce if they are cutting production. I personally think Ford is more worried about marginal costs and increasing productivity than they are about increasing per unit profits through individual unit ADM’s.

 

[jamanrr]

You could be right on that market manipulation by companies to superficially raise prices. I’m sure many companies are certainly going to do that for as long as they can until we have an equilibrium in the markets. But I personally do not think there is any way Ford is doing that. I think corporate level Ford is purely in desperation mode to pump out everything they can. They are getting tons of bad coverage for these rollouts especially on things like the Bronco and Gen3 and angry customers and I think they would love it if every human that wanted their vehicles got one. Also if they do keep supply low for high demand and other companies don’t do it then Ford would get crushed by competitors which is why the market works well. You already see it everywhere in this forum as a small size example with Lots of guys here wanting Raptors and can’t afford them currently or don’t want to pay that ADM or can’t wait for one so they buy another truck such as other F-150s or Rams or Toyota’s etc….I think it’s a pessimistic view and would highly doubt its some organized / intentional plot to squeeze some extra money out of some wealthier folks to turn off the populace. Ford is a manufacturer for the masses and are not Lamborghini.

Then what is up with all those photos floating around of 10s of thousand Broncos and F150s sitting in lots around Detroit? just sitting there.

 

[Frogger22]

Then what is up with all those photos floating around of 10s of thousand Broncos and F150s sitting in lots around Detroit? just sitting there.

They are not fully finished being built yet is why. They skipped things like putting microchips in them and built the rest of the truck to get them out of the assembly lines and out of the way. If they have everything to build it but the chips then it’s most efficient and effective to build the trucks then finish it later. As microchips come in then they are finishing them and sending them out as much as they can. But the problem is do they put microchips in the those trucks they already built or in new vehicles coming down the line today? I think the answer is they are splitting them between both which is going to be a slow process. But then there is another issue now for ppl as they are buying a brand new truck that has been sitting in parking lots for who knows how long outside. They also aren’t getting the same QA checks that they normally would being built properly all at once. Which is why some people are having issues with trucks in my opinion. Ford I’m sure goes through all the same QA checks eventually but when you change the routine of it all being done at the factory it opens up room for error and problems and you’re seeing that with some problematic trucks. But as for us as customers, I also say it’s just bad policy to buy first models of anything. Usually takes manufacturers years to iron out the kinks and really get something perfected. Which is why I’d personally wait anyways. These are problematic times with problematic trucks with inflated prices and so on. Unless y’all are just straight balling out I think it wise to be patient and let things settle.

 

[jamanrr]

They are not fully finished being built yet is why. They skipped things like putting microchips in them and built the rest of the truck to get them out of the assembly lines and out of the way. If they have everything to build it but the chips then it’s most efficient and effective to build the trucks then finish it later. As microchips come in then they are finishing them and sending them out as much as they can. But the problem is do they put microchips in the those trucks they already built or in new vehicles coming down the line today? I think the answer is they are splitting them between both which is going to be a slow process. But then there is another issue now for ppl as they are buying a brand new truck that has been sitting in parking lots for who knows how long outside. They also aren’t getting the same QA checks that they normally would being built properly all at once. Which is why some people are having issues with trucks in my opinion. Ford I’m sure goes through all the same QA checks eventually but when you change the routine of it all being done at the factory it opens up room for error and problems and you’re seeing that with some problematic trucks. But as for us as customers, I also say it’s just bad policy to buy first models of anything. Usually takes manufacturers years to iron out the kinks and really get something perfected. Which is why I’d personally wait anyways. These are problematic times with problematic trucks with inflated prices and so on. Unless y’all are just straight balling out I think it wise to be patient and let things settle.

They say microchips but that doesn't have anything to do with it, honestly. How many smartphone shortages is there? None

This is an effort to hasten the end of the ICE vehicles and help usher in a new EV future. Honestly, I would buy EV or Hybrid Bronco right now because that is the future. ICE motors are going to be a thing of the past and the FUTURE is EVs whether everyone likes it or not.

 

[Frogger22]

They say microchips but that doesn't have anything to do with it, honestly. How many smartphone shortages is there? None

This is an effort to hasten the end of the ICE vehicles and help usher in a new EV future. Honestly, I would buy EV or Hybrid Bronco right now because that is the future. ICE motors are going to be a thing of the past and the FUTURE is EVs whether everyone likes it or not.

Well no company is the same as any other company (especially in different markets) so smart phones to raptors have nothing to do with each other. Apple for example has plants in China that build their chips directly and so apple doesn’t have a shortage cause they use cheap slave labor to build their stuff without any middle man. Ford more than likely just buys them off the market which does have a drastic shortage of chips.

And just an FYI, your EV’s you are talking about require a vast amount more chips than an F150 so realistically there is an even bigger shortage if that is truly the goal. And if you want an EV go for it nobody is stopping you. There is definitely an intentional plot by the current US Gov to push EV’s down our throats whether you like it or not. Too bad the technology isn’t there for it yet and they are foolishly pushing us into a recession over those exact bad policies.

 

[jamanrr]

^the technology and infrastructure is there more than you know.

Just load up a plug share app and take a look. People are resistant to EV adaption and most of them have moved up market to be vastly more expensive vehicles than previous models due to inflation. The infrastructure is there and is improving everyday but people are reluctant to change because lets face it ICE motors are just so much cooler.

 

[Frogger22]

^the technology and infrastructure is there more than you know.

Just load up a plug share app and take a look. People are resistant to EV adaption and most of them have moved up market to be vastly more expensive vehicles than previous models due to inflation. The infrastructure is there and is improving everyday but people are reluctant to change because lets face it ICE motors are just so much cooler.

Yeah 10000000% the infrastructure isn’t even close to being there to support all vehicles going electric. And they aren’t improving the situation they are actually making it much worse. They are cutting off real power producers to go “green” on unreliable uneven power supplies that won’t work in huge parts of the world when they at the same time are trying to force everyone on the planet to go electric. Just look at California having yearly blackouts because they are killing off their actual power producing sources or the EU shutting down their nuclear power plants so they can be slaves to Russia as perfect examples of bad choices being displayed for you to see. Electricity isn’t just magically green because it’s for an EV. Your smart car is full of minerals that are mined and the electricity is powered by fossil fuels. The EU/US just pretend to go green and stop our oil production so then we can posterize to ppl who pretend to care about the environment while they take private jets to their many mansions around the globe, and then we have to buy dirty oil from the worst people on the planet. Just look at Russia’s economy it is completely built on selling oil to the west. We are directly financing the attacks on Ukraine, fun times for all going green is great! If anyone would pull their head out of @$$ for a min we would all be going into nuclear energy to produce actually strong electricity and upgrade the entire electrical grid then you could actually have all vehicles go EV. But yeah know, Greta probably would be mad or something.

 

[GordoJay]

Another way to look at it, Ford has a full work force that is used to pumping out all the vehicles at full speed and I think there is no way they are intentionally slowing that down. Just a quick google search says Ford has around 183,000 employees. If Ford was serious about slowing the pace just to make more profits there would have to be some massive layoffs. They would not sustain their normal workforce if they are cutting production. I personally think Ford is more worried about marginal costs and increasing productivity than they are about increasing per unit profits through individual unit ADM’s.

I think it's worse than that. I don't know about the current contracts, but in the past, automakers would have to pay the union employees whether they worked or not. Better to have them working in that case.

 

[jamanrr]

^ Basically everything you said is wrong and you have no idea about what you are talking.