KIDOR Lemon Law Denied and Suspension Warranty Cancelled

[DFS]

Bingo. A perfect summary.

My prediction is that he trades it in for a TRX. I can't wait.

Only if he can find a TRX for under MSRP (goodluck) and then will claim it's a lemon to get his money back after beating the living S*** out of it for a few months.

 

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

It did it at every level. Stock. Stock rear with Eibachs. Eibachs and Deavers, Eibachs and 35's, Eibachs and 37's. Back to stock with nothing on the truck at all, still does it just not as bad. The truck has had many other problems he doesnt post on social media. Ford has spent more time fixing that lemon than hes drove it. I have quite a few friends whose trucks have been with Ford for 2-3 months in repair and they still do the same thing they did after. I would suggest not being so hard on the guy for wanting his truck to work. Yes he did modify it and took it to Ford modified. He isnt "fooling" anyone there, theyve had his truck in there before. They never once cancelled his warranty. Maybe one of the Ford techs on here can explain to my how the steering wheel is being ****** out of his hand and you can see how violently it does it in his videos, yet the truck is driving perfectly straight and not bouncing all over the place. Thats where Im at a loss with whats happening to it

He should've continue to take it to Ford Dealer when truck had problem while suspension was still stock. Who in their right mind knowing that there is a problem starts to modify area of the truck that might have factory issue before fix is done by authorized dealer. I also commented in his video when he was returning truck to stock. I asked him what will he say when Ford asks him where part of the fenders are? I've seen him take sledge hammer and sawsall to those fenders and almost twitched when I watched the way he butchered those fenders. Also there are three explanations:
1st: guy must have really bad luck having 3rd car as a lemon.
2nd: he is trying to unload the truck that he messed up.
3rd: he is an idiot who shouldn't be even looking at power tools.

 

[GordoJay]

1st: guy must have really bad luck having 3rd car as a lemon.
2nd: he is trying to unload the truck that he messed up.
3rd: he is an idiot who shouldn't be even looking at power tools.

I'll take number 3 for 100 ...

 

[FordTechOne]

I watched his previous videos. After he installed Eibach Springs he did alignment and at that time he was still running stock wheels and tires. Thats why i posted my question if lets say Shelby Raptors come with front already lifted and springs make his steering wheel shake wouldn't all other lifted Raptors either Shelby ones or even ones with Geisers or Eibachs (including mine) do the same thing? 99% people on here that leveled their truck don't have this problem so i can only assume that springs have nothing to do with it.

The Shelby Raptors are an aftermarket conversion, they are not Ford engineered. Therefore, they may experience the same issue when operated under the conditions shown in the videos. Same with any other truck that has suspension modifications and/or oversized tires.

Stock trucks are not having this issue. Therefore, the issue is the result of any combination of the modifications that the affected trucks are equipped with. There is nothing that needs to be addressed on the OEM side.

 

[FordTechOne]

Well I disagree.. the steering input shaft is getting input from the tires or abs or stabilitycontrol, enough to jerk the wheel out of your hand and cause a loss of control, that's not worth looking into? .. that's a serious problem. Somewhere the wires are crossed and I really doubt 1.5in taller springs are the issue... the rack starts fighting against itself..

When the issue is induced by aftermarket modifications, no, the OEM is not going to look into it. It’s not their problem, and it shouldn’t be.

There are no wires crossed. When you increase ride height and tire size, you’re changing the entire geometry of the steering and suspension, even if toe/camber/caster are compensated. That includes control arm angle, Steering Axis Inclination (SAI), inner and outer tie rod angles, stabilizer bar angles, unsprung weight, etc. Those variances can produce any number of undesirable effects, including oscillations. This is especially true when operated under severe conditions.

When you have an issue caused by an aftermarket modification, seek an aftermarket solution or return to stock. If this oscillation can be demonstrated to an aftermarket suspension engineering company (Eibach, Icon, etc) using the appropriate equipment, the root cause could be isolated and a corresponding resolution could be developed.

 

[smurfslayer]

Also there are three explanations:
1st: guy must have really bad luck having 3rd car as a lemon.
2nd: he is trying to unload the truck that he messed up.
3rd: he is an idiot who shouldn't be even looking at power tools.

In his defense re: point #1, lots of people who push vehicles hard have difficulties that normal commuters or motorists do not. Driving vehicles hard stresses parts more, wears them out faster.

I kind of liken it to the ubiquitous “Muh 1911 never jams”.

uh-huh. That can be a true statement, provided a finite round count you’re making that statement from. And you can trade out 1911 for any Glock, sig, s&w, S/A, colt, Beretta, Mossberg, Ruger, FN, Kimber, Walther, H&K, CZ, Taurus, etc.

They all malfunction at some point and some severely, but most never encounter it because they don’t put the number of rounds downrange to elicit a malfunction. Start putting 1-2 thousand rounds a month down range and see how long the no malfunction streak lasts. FWIW, my personal best has been ~12,000 rounds of total use but this one was pulled from regular use after about 9400 rounds and relegated to occasional use. For week in, week out use I’ve had 3 break 7500 rounds without choking, being shot routinely to the tune of at least 200 rounds per week and often more. All of them went longer until a major malfunction, part breakage or part wearing out.

I don’t have a problem with someone going out and mimicking Raptor Assault shenanigans or one upping them for that matter. I believe Ford designed the Raptor to take quite a bit more use than R/A takes us through and I believe quite a few of these exploits are certainly not abuse. But, as FTO has pointed out, once you start modifying from stock, the further you take the truck away from what it was tested at, the more responsible you become for part failures, wear and paying for them.

 

[Nick9323]

I totally agree with @FordTechOne about the warranty and lemon law since it is a game of going back and forth to stock and the aftermarket parts seem to exacerbate the issue.

However my own engineering curiosity makes me want to figure out why this is happening. Hearing that @zombiekiller has only had this happen once and comparing their builds and reported driving style, I wonder if KIDORs problem is actually that he did a halfway modification to the truck. If you go full svc kit or similar that's properly engineered to take the abuse and keep the angles right, if that would go away. He pushes the truck hard with stock control arms and bushings but has aftermarket springs and wheels and a ton of extra weight, I think he said like 800lbs normally. The fact that the EXO guys run stupid hard and do huge miles every year but have fully built trucks to me says it's an issue with his build and driving style. Ie you can lift a go kart and put big wheels on it but it doesn't make it a rzr, it's missing all the middle parts that make it work right. It would almost seem that maybe a control arm, bearing, or mount is flexing, causing a weird feedback or somehow messing with a sensors position through a resonant frequency or something. Since it happens over washboard and not jumping or sustained loads makes me think of something is moving under the repeated vibration or shock loading. He may also be hitting the brakes hard enough to couple into those loadings and start to bend the components, creating the feedback loop that self rectifies after the parts unload. Just thinking out loud, curious to see what you guys think.

 

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

When the issue is induced by aftermarket modifications, no, the OEM is not going to look into it. It’s not their problem, and it shouldn’t be.

There are no wires crossed. When you increase ride height and tire size, you’re changing the entire geometry of the steering and suspension, even if toe/camber/caster are compensated. That includes control arm angle, Steering Axis Inclination (SAI), inner and outer tie rod angles, stabilizer bar angles, unsprung weight, etc. Those variances can produce any number of undesirable effects, including oscillations. This is especially true when operated under severe conditions.

When you have an issue caused by an aftermarket modification, seek an aftermarket solution or return to stock. If this oscillation can be demonstrated to an aftermarket suspension engineering company (Eibach, Icon, etc) using the appropriate equipment, the root cause could be isolated and a corresponding resolution could be developed.

Wouldn't that effect 99% of the peoole that have Eibachs or Geiser Springs and offroad their trucks even on Stock 35" Tires (his issue started on stock tires). You keep pointing to Eibachs but hundreds of people and more are running them and dont have those issues. Thats why I think Springs have nothing to do with it especially when you can order Fox 3.0 Race Series Shocks that are adjustable from 0-2" and they perform actually better then stock without any steering issues.

 

[zombiekiller]

I totally agree with @FordTechOne about the warranty and lemon law since it is a game of going back and forth to stock and the aftermarket parts seem to exacerbate the issue.

However my own engineering curiosity makes me want to figure out why this is happening. Hearing that @zombiekiller has only had this happen once and comparing their builds and reported driving style, I wonder if KIDORs problem is actually that he did a halfway modification to the truck. If you go full svc kit or similar that's properly engineered to take the abuse and keep the angles right, if that would go away. He pushes the truck hard with stock control arms and bushings but has aftermarket springs and wheels and a ton of extra weight, I think he said like 800lbs normally. The fact that the EXO guys run stupid hard and do huge miles every year but have fully built trucks to me says it's an issue with his build and driving style. Ie you can lift a go kart and put big wheels on it but it doesn't make it a rzr, it's missing all the middle parts that make it work right. It would almost seem that maybe a control arm, bearing, or mount is flexing, causing a weird feedback or somehow messing with a sensors position through a resonant frequency or something. Since it happens over washboard and not jumping or sustained loads makes me think of something is moving under the repeated vibration or shock loading. He may also be hitting the brakes hard enough to couple into those loadings and start to bend the components, creating the feedback loop that self rectifies after the parts unload. Just thinking out loud, curious to see what you guys think.

you're missing an important data point...

My truck is a 2018. The bulk of these trucks "with the issue" are 19s or 20s.

The exo staff trucks are pre-2019. The variable could be any number of things.

 

[Wojciech Gierczynski]

Ok all good points! But let’s face it I’m sure this doesn’t come as a surprise to anyone here that this guy is trying to do this and lie to Ford by swapping everything back and taking the truck in as close to stock as he could return it. I mean we all have seen some of his videos their not rocket scientist hitting the truck with sledgehammers trying to hammer a pinch weld in the wrong direction. It’s like watching Dumb & Dumber! Most of us on here have done some mods to our trucks and don’t expect Ford to pay for our experiments with our stock trucks turning them into something awesome that fits our desires or maybe keeping them bone stock but knowing when we make that jump to mod it’s on us! But I will say I have a great service advisor here in Dallas and they have bent over backwards to help me with any issue and have mentioned things like that rattle might be due to your aftermarket parts but that hasn’t stopped them from helping me get to the bottom of an issue. But I’m honest with them and have a reasonable expectation of the results considering I’ve changed the original plan and gone off script but they have had the truck for three days tracking down a rattle could figure it out but didn’t charge me a dime I picked the truck up with more tape on the truck than I could have even imagined. I did figure rattle out a few days later but they have been great! This guys just a ******** and let’s face it sometimes you just can’t fix stupid!!!

In his defense I will say he didn't lie to Ford ... his suspension and Tires was well documented by his Ford Dealer with pictures etc. Ford just found out about it after so many times dealer tried to fix the issue (probably Ford started to ask dealer questions why issue is not resolved) ... supposedly guy was under impression that Ford will be taking truxk back thats why he was returning it to stock not to lie about it.