KIDOR Lemon Law Denied and Suspension Warranty Cancelled

[Badgertits]

My truck does the same things his does, on washboard, rough roads under moderate braking..

its not normal. its the electronic steering/stability control/abs causing the issues.. I had to tighten my steering wheel twice in the same day while off roading around las vegas and laughlin nv.. i also broke my thumb nail like he did. there's definitely something wrong.

my 2019 truck has 35" toyos on 0 offset methods, eibach springs and icon upper arms.. would you call that heavily modified?

Ummm yes, yes I would. I would certainly say the front end of your truck- which is where the issue stems from - so yeah, if I’m a Ford service dept Mgr I’m saying pound sand.

you have altered the ride height & added linear rate instead of stock progressive springs, you’ve add aftermarket a-arms, which you’ll probably say help avoid any negative effects of the added height to the front end, but in reality you just added another non-Ford engineered item to the truck that further puts suspension angles outta wack

electric steering, blis, stability control, adaptive cruise, varying steering weights, live valve shocks etc etc all the tech crap is meant to work in unison based on the way the truck was engineered from the factory.

could easily be that is what’s causing the issue

not trying to be devils advocate here but.......well yeah I guess I kind of am

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

So in 8 pages I’ve come to one simple conclusion- if I want to run 37’s and keep my factory warranty, I should probably buy a 3rd Gen with the 37” setup. Maybe I’ll save a lot of pennies and down the road buy the Raptor R with 37’s (if that’s an option).

 

[GordoJay]

So in 8 pages I’ve come to one simple conclusion- if I want to run 37’s and keep my factory warranty, I should probably buy a 3rd Gen with the 37” setup. Maybe I’ll save a lot of pennies and down the road buy the Raptor R with 37’s (if that’s an option).

Yes. I'm a little concerned that you didn't know this before you read the thread ...

 

[zombiekiller]

Would it not be possible to run a hydraulic swing set and dummy plug the sensors attached to the steering rack?

I have not found a shop able to loop the steering circuits like that. there are a few shops that make swingset setups for gen2 raptors.

and by "make", I mean the actual fabricated setup that installs in place of the front differential.

I've spoken to both. Neither has figured out how to loop the steering sensors, nor have they bothered to get a bracket for a PS pump worked out.

I wouldn't really call those "kits" complete being that none of your modes will work. If the modes didn't affect the braking system, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but the "normal" braking behavior is kinda crap when compared to the braking feel and performance when in baja mode.

I don't really consider those "kits" as solutions, especially for the price that they go for. ( $10K minimum).

hell, I feel like a failure because I can't figure out how to make the occupant detection sensor "work" with race seats. That is the only dash light that is on in my truck after all of the mods and it frustrates the crap out of me.

 

[smurfslayer]

I have driven with Helio. The truck was doing it right away, bone stock. As for heavily modified, you are all wrong, it has stock shocks with aftermarket springs, I would not consider that "heavily modified". The steering wheel was literally being ripped from his hands with 35's on it, long before the 37's. It actually pulled his finger nail off one time. The trimming of fenders and bashing of the pinch weld with a sledge is how almost every "aftermarket" off road place does it.

So you’re saying that he heavily modified a malfunctioning truck?
And then proceeded to continue to subject the truck to the conditions that caused the malfunction, likely making it worse, and then returned it to -I will call it: significantly closer to stock than seen in his videos and complains about the damage not being covered under warranty?

1) How is the above scenario that you described not abuse of the vehicle?
2) how is the facts from his own videos not evidence of warranty fraud?
3) In what reality is modifying a malfunctioning vehicle smart?

 

[GordoJay]

So you’re saying that he heavily modified a malfunctioning truck?

You can fix your truck, but you can't fix stupid.

 

[zombiekiller]

The dealer did those repairs, not Ford (I know, confusing). Once Ford corporate found out (most likely through a Field Engineer), they voided this scumbag's suspension warranty, as he eluded to in his video. It's impossible to program any module for unknown modifications, which in this case includes a suspension lift and 37" tires combined with unique harsh terrain. Therefore, the way in which the Power Steering Control Module (PSCM) reacts is entirely unknown, since it's never been designed or tested under those conditions.

This guy is simply a con artist...he is working the system, capitalizing on California's extremely liberal "consumer protection" laws by defrauding the dealership and the OE in order to continue publishing content on his channel. If warranty fraud was treated the same way as insurance fraud (as it should be) in court, this low life would be in prison. Instead, he's already planning to buy the next vehicle that he'll modify, abuse, destroy, and then either get bought back or sue the manufacturer for and reap a profit off of. People like him are trash, he's exploiting the system and profiting at the expense of the average consumer.

I 100% agree with everything that you said from your perspective. Helio isn't a bad guy, but I do feel like he suffers from the same paradigm as a lot of folks that want to partake in the whole offroad/desert truck lifestyle. They just don't "get" that the hobby is incredibly expensive.

They buy a truck, they go on "runs" with the built trucks. They try to keep up in a mostly stock vehicle ( albeit slightly modified) and LOTS of things break.

Then they realize that what broke is expensive, and costs more to repair than they can afford.

Now we get to the point that bothers me, just like it bothers you.

They then have a truck that is broken or compromised. They need this truck as their daily driver. The only way that they can come up with to get the truck fixed is to pull the " go back to stock and see if we can sneak one past the dealer so they fix it". Not cool. not cool at all. I don't think that Helio really understands how this choice can impact other people because all he sees is a dealer (with money) and Ford ( with a lot more money) and while he can't "afford it", in his mind "they" can. ( which is a crap perspective, but it is what it is)

I'm sure that if I had tried really hard, certain things that I've broken might have been fixed by a dealer. BUT, I was raised to accept the consequences of my choices, so I can't bring myself to do that. It just isn't who I am. I'd rather let my truck sit in the garage until I can afford to fix it.

The problem with Helio's logic is that he feels like Ford should "fix" the steering behavior because it "still does it when I put it back to stock".

The fault in that logic ( and being honest, I glossed past it at first too.) is that the damage was already done by modifying the vehicle outside of factory spec. Whether the behavior still presents is now immaterial.

He doesn't have a data point that clearly shows that the truck was doing it before he modified a single thing. The dealer having replaced all of the parts and reset the computers doesn't count. The dealer could have "missed" the "thing" that is causing the problem that was damaged due to the aftermarket parts.

Damage done. The responsibility to prove that what he changed on the truck didn't contribute to the malfunctioning of his truck is on the end-user. Even if he finds a bone stock raptor that does the same thing, it doesn't prove anything.

From a choices/consequences perspective he now really needs to accept the outcome. I'm sure he's frustrated by the consequences of his choices being that no one can figure it out and he can't afford to fix it. People do ****** things when their back is against the wall.

I get that it makes people pissed. however poor choices with regards to a truck don't make someone a bad person. glass houses and all of that.

I'm pretty sure that the worst thing that he could do is hire a lawyer to "fight Ford" for him. He'd be better served taking that retainer and hourly rate and put it towards taking the truck to a shop that has the ability to properly diagnose and repair the truck.

Or take some instructor-led training courses to learn how to operate the vehicle in a way that doesn't cause the behavior.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't steer while I'm braking, unless it is a "stab the brakes, set the line, on the gas" left-foot-braking move.

 

[GordoJay]

I'm pretty sure that the worst thing that he could do is hire a lawyer to "fight Ford" for him. He'd be better served taking that retainer and hourly rate and put it towards taking the truck to a shop that has the ability to properly diagnose and repair the truck.

Hiring a lawyer to fight for him is easy. They bill by the hour, win or lose. Finding one that could win this case after he documented everything important to the defense on youtube will be anything but easy.

 

[downforce137]

I 100% agree with everything that you said from your perspective. Helio isn't a bad guy, but I do feel like he suffers from the same paradigm as a lot of folks that want to partake in the whole offroad/desert truck lifestyle. They just don't "get" that the hobby is incredibly expensive.

They buy a truck, they go on "runs" with the built trucks. They try to keep up in a mostly stock vehicle ( albeit slightly modified) and LOTS of things break.

Then they realize that what broke is expensive, and costs more to repair than they can afford.

Now we get to the point that bothers me, just like it bothers you.

They then have a truck that is broken or compromised. They need this truck as their daily driver. The only way that they can come up with to get the truck fixed is to pull the " go back to stock and see if we can sneak one past the dealer so they fix it". Not cool. not cool at all. I don't think that Helio really understands how this choice can impact other people because all he sees is a dealer (with money) and Ford ( with a lot more money) and while he can't "afford it", in his mind "they" can. ( which is a crap perspective, but it is what it is)

I'm sure that if I had tried really hard, certain things that I've broken might have been fixed by a dealer. BUT, I was raised to accept the consequences of my choices, so I can't bring myself to do that. It just isn't who I am. I'd rather let my truck sit in the garage until I can afford to fix it.

The problem with Helio's logic is that he feels like Ford should "fix" the steering behavior because it "still does it when I put it back to stock".

The fault in that logic ( and being honest, I glossed past it at first too.) is that the damage was already done by modifying the vehicle outside of factory spec. Whether the behavior still presents is now immaterial.

He doesn't have a data point that clearly shows that the truck was doing it before he modified a single thing. The dealer having replaced all of the parts and reset the computers doesn't count. The dealer could have "missed" the "thing" that is causing the problem that was damaged due to the aftermarket parts.

Damage done. The responsibility to prove that what he changed on the truck didn't contribute to the malfunctioning of his truck is on the end-user. Even if he finds a bone stock raptor that does the same thing, it doesn't prove anything.

From a choices/consequences perspective he now really needs to accept the outcome. I'm sure he's frustrated by the consequences of his choices being that no one can figure it out and he can't afford to fix it. People do ****** things when their back is against the wall.

I get that it makes people pissed. however poor choices with regards to a truck don't make someone a bad person. glass houses and all of that.

I'm pretty sure that the worst thing that he could do is hire a lawyer to "fight Ford" for him. He'd be better served taking that retainer and hourly rate and put it towards taking the truck to a shop that has the ability to properly diagnose and repair the truck.

Or take some instructor-led training courses to learn how to operate the vehicle in a way that doesn't cause the behavior.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't steer while I'm braking, unless it is a "stab the brakes, set the line, on the gas" left-foot-braking move.

Like I said, my truck has the same issues at times.. it's just slowing down in a straight line on a rough road will make it happen. There was several other gen2 trucks doing the same thing all with varied levels of modification on the run I was on when I first experienced it. It also happened in the sand dunes a couple times.. I never tried bringing it to the dealership because I already knew they'd blame springs..

definitely a software level design flaw. I had similar modification to my gen1 and never experienced anything like this. It's the electronic steering fighting or getting input from the wheels and then violently fighting back against the input you're putting into the wheel.

 

[goblues38]

3) In what reality is modifying a malfunctioning vehicle smart?

This is the one that sticks out for me. I waited 30,*** miles to ensure my truck was good before I did any serious mods I cant come back from . A tune in my case.