Ford Gen3 Raptor and it's future- R's in greater #'s?
- Thread starter triggerfish
- Start date
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KevoUsmc
FRF Addict
I don't have any experience in the TRX - but I did spend some time this morning looking up videos and built my own to broaden my perspective, and I can honestly say I am not impressed. The only thing I like is the sound (obviously). I personally think the Gen 3 interior looks way nicer/cleaner and for some reason I just get this bad vibe like a TRX was just slapped together in a store brand/generic kind of way. Just my internet opinion..
BoostCreep
FRF Addict
I have absolutely zero interest in the TRX and zero desire to own one at any price. The entire notion that the TRX is the new king and “beat” the raptor just because it has a v8 or more hp is laughable.
This is coming from someone who’s owned three Dodge/Ram trucks. Junk.
This is coming from someone who’s owned three Dodge/Ram trucks. Junk.
melvimbe
FRF Addict
One thing that I think is worth noting....people tend to view the Raptor as very important to Ford. That's to be expected, as this is a Raptor forum, and the Raptor certainly has been important to Ford in the past. However, I think you can gauge how important a model is to a manufacturer by how much marketing effort they put into it.
Ford introduced the new F150 about a year ago, and it was big deal. Obviously, it's essentially the core of their business, so it needs to be. They introduce the Bronco too, and put a lot of marketing into that, with a reservation system and everything. The Lightning was a big deal as well. Huge production at a Ford plant. The new Raptor? Not on the same scale at all. It appears almost as an after thought. Arguably, they spent more on the Maverick then they did no the Raptor.
I'm not saying the Raptor doesn't matter to Ford, but it appears to be well down on the priority list. That's surely because of an established fan base, but I imagine also because it's success is less crucial to the success of Ford as a whole.
Ram/Jeep probably needs the TRX than Ford needs the Raptor, in a way. Although I wouldn't be too surprised if there execs are more concerned about holding off the Bronco competition and not falling too far behind in the EV race. Won't matter how much the TRX helps the Ram brand if they lose there.
Ford introduced the new F150 about a year ago, and it was big deal. Obviously, it's essentially the core of their business, so it needs to be. They introduce the Bronco too, and put a lot of marketing into that, with a reservation system and everything. The Lightning was a big deal as well. Huge production at a Ford plant. The new Raptor? Not on the same scale at all. It appears almost as an after thought. Arguably, they spent more on the Maverick then they did no the Raptor.
I'm not saying the Raptor doesn't matter to Ford, but it appears to be well down on the priority list. That's surely because of an established fan base, but I imagine also because it's success is less crucial to the success of Ford as a whole.
Ram/Jeep probably needs the TRX than Ford needs the Raptor, in a way. Although I wouldn't be too surprised if there execs are more concerned about holding off the Bronco competition and not falling too far behind in the EV race. Won't matter how much the TRX helps the Ram brand if they lose there.
RadRaptor
Full Access Member
Dodge sucks... and those that go to TRX will be back..my 19 had a Cobb stage 2, and it flew and pulled like hell. I get those guys that like the sound, but hell..... I have a range rover SVR with a supercharged v8-- it sounds bad and its fast... but if I had to pick between it and a raptor, the raptor wins everyday and twice on Sunday..... Coming for the collision repair industry, Dodge's bodies and frames are weak.. almost an afterthought...... I'll stick with Ford, and I'll bet lots of those TRX defectors will be back.
esigfrid250
Member
Yes the TRX has the obvious HP advantage, but I would have to say that if you put the two trucks to an actual OFF ROAD race; drag(in the dirt), short track or baja style, I don't think the TRX would win. If you want to go fast on the road, there are better choices out there. I am just not buying it. The Raptor has plenty of power for its intended application and it has proven itself to excel in its intended environment. Just my 2 cents! If any of the youtubers would like to put my theory to the test, I'm sure you will get many views. Lets see it!
ganooch
Full Access Member
There are a lot of head to head comparisons on YouTube...
jroub
Full Access Member
The v8 will be the standard. Like you mentioned with the ‘10 to ‘11 transition. First year it’s all ‘cosmetic’, just the new looks but a lot of stuff carried over from prior gen or what’s already available within the company. 2nd year brings the good stuff!I've never seen such a mass exodus from a specific car forum as I've seen with owners trading their Ford Raptor in for a Dodge TRX! I've been a Raptor owner since Gen1 and the Raptor following has always been strong.. but there was no real alternative until the TRX.
Now with the TRX, I see Raptor owners leaving in droves.. and I totally get why.. the TRX is what the new G3 Raptor should have been. To offer us the same old engine with ZERO HP increase and just hope the 3-link suspension and new tech would be enough to make us happy just seems ridiculous.. or a cop out. You mean to tell me that after all this time they couldn't improve the engine... even just a little bit on the 3.5? Then just tease us with what it should have been in the R? Come on!!
So with talking with a buddy today we pretty much came to the conclusion that Ford will have to up the production of the "R" in far greater numbers than at least I have assumed they would be producing or what dealers are telling us they will be producing (1 to 3 allocations at the dealers I've inquired with) in order to be competitive and to keep selling the Raptor in the numbers they want to. Why do I say this?
I can get a TRX on order from a Jeep dealership I know at MSRP and can have my truck in about 3 months time, according to the GM there. They are producing the TRX in really strong numbers and individual dealers are getting far more TRX's than any individual Ford dealers I've inquired with (or, at the minimum, the predicted Raptor R numbers they are telling me they will get). The TRX I specced out comes out to $86K, only $6K more than my '21 specced 35" 3.5L Raptor!
So if Ford drops the GT500 motor in the Raptor, it's safe to assume that a loaded out R will run $95K, right? And, on top of that, every single Ford dealer I've dare to mention the Raptor R to immediately fires back with $10K-$20K ADM because of the limited production. So to that, I have to ask myself and others.. is the Raptor R really going to be worth an extra $20,000 to $30,000 more than a TRX? Personally, I'm not paying $105K-$115K for a Raptor R. Nope. Nada.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm a Ford guy and I bleed Oval Blue! I've been a long time SVT owner, going back into the 90's and through the GEN1 SVT's, and onto Ford Performance releases. I personally see the pros of the Ford Raptor and that's what I really want in the future (I haven't put in my MSRP TRX order but I have a 2021 Raptor order in). But to jump into a 700HP bad *** truck... for the money, the TRX is it if Ford limits production and in turn dealers continue to mark them up (as we know they will).
But if Ford produces the R Raptor in much greater numbers to be competitive, this will level off the playing field (I do believe the Ford will be superior as a true baja truck, but if I'm being honest I live in the southeast and won't be jumping mine or running at speed in a baja setting). I'm not convinced the 3.5 will hold sales vs the TRX moving forward at it's price (Again, my 2021 3.5 Raptor will sticker at $80K). I also believe that the fact we already have what, 100,000 (wild guess lol) Gen 2's with 3.5 motors running around and baja guys not necessarily caring about the new tech, there's not a lot of motivation to move to a 3.5 Gen3 for A LOT OF PEOPLE.
So the only thing that makes sense to save the Raptor and keep the sales Ford expects would be to just give us the R motor and move forward with that as the standard! Kind of like how back in 2010 Ford initially released the Raptor with the 5.4L and within a year, made the 6.2L the only option.
I'm not trying to stir the shitpot here, only open this up for disussion and opinions. I know some will say there's no way they'll make the R motor the standard because it's scarce, but all they have to do is up the motor production line.
RaptorRnr
Full Access Member
I think RAM built the truck they wanted to compete with the Raptor. Both RAM and Ford pull from the parts bin to build their trucks and then add some customization. Ford specifically built a stronger, wider frame and added specific suspension components so that the truck could do what it was designed for. Ford uses their multi-purpose engine that has applications across the F-150 line, as well as a ** version in the Ford GT. Smaller configurations are added in to other vehicles learning from what they have mastered. RAM built some custom components and pulled from a parts bin that they had with some tweaking to a high output motor, used in many other vehicles in their line-up. When I throw my Raptor in to whoops or catch air in it the truck, it is very capable of handling the suspension abuse I throw at it and it's well balanced through the air. I have never driven a TRX but I would not trust the truck's ability to handle Baja with that drive train. It seems like a really nice trophy truck that is great on a drag strip, but be careful really throwing it in to whoops, reasonable jumps and other technical situations. It's front heavy and not balanced like a purpose-built off-road race truck like the Raptor. The other things that Ford builds in to the Raptor include terrain modes built for the truck. Not that RAM doesn't but it doesn't seem purpose built. It seems "me too" built. When I'm sliding through the desert, I prefer Sport Mode with traction control off, unless I'm really pushing it through dirt/sand in tight turns and need the Baja mode to push and pull me through. My 12-year-old son laughs at me as a giggle and look at him while we're sliding sideways. Perhaps the TRX has enough torque going to the rear wheels to slide things out, but I wouldn't want to be stuck with AWD as the only option.
On a recent trip to Moab I found a trail I could go 70 MPH on and rock crawl at other parts of the same trail. The truck was always balanced and gobbled up anything I threw at it. The RAM may have been even more fun at speed on the long stretches but would have been difficult to control during the rock crawl situations where the Raptor benefits from the front Torsion. On this trail I never needed to be in 4L but it was still some technical parts on the slick rock. I'm confident Ford will take their same great recipe for a balanced, off-road racing truck with the Raptor R.
While at the same time, it's nice to finally have someone competing in the space. If we didn't have RAM in the picture with the TRX, would we even have the prospect of a Raptor R? People choose different trucks and compromises for different reasons. I trust my Raptor. I would struggle to trust a TRX for the 80k - 100k I plan to have my Raptor. My opinion is anecdotally based on what I have heard about reliability with RAM (non diesel) vehicles. Sure they have gotten better in recent years. I wouldn't want to be stuck out on a trail with either vehicle. I feel like my Raptor wouldn't need a tow, based on some of the things I read about the TRX. I've had 4 F-150s, 3 of which had different output levels of the 3.5L. The engine an platform have made me pretty confident.
On a recent trip to Moab I found a trail I could go 70 MPH on and rock crawl at other parts of the same trail. The truck was always balanced and gobbled up anything I threw at it. The RAM may have been even more fun at speed on the long stretches but would have been difficult to control during the rock crawl situations where the Raptor benefits from the front Torsion. On this trail I never needed to be in 4L but it was still some technical parts on the slick rock. I'm confident Ford will take their same great recipe for a balanced, off-road racing truck with the Raptor R.
While at the same time, it's nice to finally have someone competing in the space. If we didn't have RAM in the picture with the TRX, would we even have the prospect of a Raptor R? People choose different trucks and compromises for different reasons. I trust my Raptor. I would struggle to trust a TRX for the 80k - 100k I plan to have my Raptor. My opinion is anecdotally based on what I have heard about reliability with RAM (non diesel) vehicles. Sure they have gotten better in recent years. I wouldn't want to be stuck out on a trail with either vehicle. I feel like my Raptor wouldn't need a tow, based on some of the things I read about the TRX. I've had 4 F-150s, 3 of which had different output levels of the 3.5L. The engine an platform have made me pretty confident.
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