Cam Phaser/Engine Failure Reports

[NORCAL SS]

Mine was a January 2019 build.

 

[Turbo_lander]

So it's a crap shoot when it comes to bad cam phasers? There has to be some correlation with the trucks with cam phasers issues.

On side note waiting on Cam Phasers but they will not replace the chains. Should I push for chains and tensioners to be replaced?

 

[nikhsub1]

I thought it had nothing to do with the actual chains?

 

[WraptorBoy]

I thought it had nothing to do with the actual chains?

My understanding is that due to the nature of the defective cam phasers, the chain(s) start to streatch a little thereby causing a rub against the guide. Once the oil pressure builds up, the slack is taken up within the system and the noise goes away and is fine. It may gradually get worse over time. Some have lived with it for a long time while other's engines throw codes . I'm just speculating from what I have read.

So it's a crap shoot when it comes to bad cam phasers? There has to be some correlation with the trucks with cam phasers issues.

On side note waiting on Cam Phasers but they will not replace the chains. Should I push for chains and tensioners to be replaced?

Could be a combination of defective parts and poor engine assembly or just one or the other.

Obviously assembling an engine requires perfect precision and if that is not achieved...

Have you watched some of the assembly videos for an engine? Seems to be mostly manual human work. I see them chatting with each other while working. Lots of room for mistakes.

 

[smurfslayer]

My understanding is that due to the nature of the defective cam phasers, the chain(s) start to streatch a little thereby causing a rub against the guide. Once the oil pressure builds up, the slack is taken up within the system and the noise goes away and is fine. It may gradually get worse over time. Some have lived with it for a long time while other's engines throw codes . I'm just speculating from what I have read

This started with sasquatch77, back when she was posting as... mcnawsty I think, anyway, one of her previous sign ins here has this chain stretching assertion.

I’d like to hear someone explain this technically, because while they will break under pretty extreme use, timing chains are pretty stout. As with all chains, roller bearing, what have you, they stretch initially upon break in, at a higher than usual and non linear rate, which can be about 500-1500 miles, give or take and they will settle into a more slow and steady rate of stretch.

I’m having a hard time with the phaser causing, or even contributing to chain stretch in and of themselves. I could see maybe detonation or hydrolocking or a repeated pattern of run to redline and then use the driveline to decelerate; commonly called ‘chopping the throttle’.

That’s not to say the chains can’t be bad right up front, but if the chain hasn’t passed the measurable run out limit, why replace it?

guides and tensioners; that may be another story.

ask them to measure the timing chains for run out and confirm the chain tensioner function, as well as checking the guide for excessive wear.

it’s already apart or will be so it’s literally 2-3 minutes work.

 

[WraptorBoy]

This started with sasquatch77, back when she was posting as... mcnawsty I think, anyway, one of her previous sign ins here has this chain stretching assertion.

I’d like to hear someone explain this technically, because while they will break under pretty extreme use, timing chains are pretty stout. As with all chains, roller bearing, what have you, they stretch initially upon break in, at a higher than usual and non linear rate, which can be about 500-1500 miles, give or take and they will settle into a more slow and steady rate of stretch.

I’m having a hard time with the phaser causing, or even contributing to chain stretch in and of themselves. I could see maybe detonation or hydrolocking or a repeated pattern of run to redline and then use the driveline to decelerate; commonly called ‘chopping the throttle’.

That’s not to say the chains can’t be bad right up front, but if the chain hasn’t passed the measurable run out limit, why replace it?

guides and tensioners; that may be another story.

ask them to measure the timing chains for run out and confirm the chain tensioner function, as well as checking the guide for excessive wear.

it’s already apart or will be so it’s literally 2-3 minutes work.

There are a few videos on youtube from "FordTechMakuloco" on this. He seems legit and from what I can tell he's a Ford tech who works with Ford. Also has a DIY guide on replacing the phasers, chains etc! Heck of a job but nothing that we couldn't do if you have the time. On one of those videos, he explains this issue pretty well.

Note he talks about the F-150 ecoboost and not the Raptor ecoboost and it's a first gen 2014 ecoboost so just use it for informational purposes! The video is here:

He describes the issue as being that the chain(s) have stretched enough and the tensioner can no longer compensate and you get the startup rattle.

Here is another with an update on the update

Anyway. It sucks because we can't do anything about it. It seems the issue has been around for a while so yeah, not sure why.

 

[Crash45]

There are a few videos on youtube from "FordTechMakuloco" on this. He seems legit and from what I can tell he's a Ford tech who works with Ford. Also has a DIY guide on replacing the phasers, chains etc! Heck of a job but nothing that we couldn't do if you have the time. On one of those videos, he explains this issue pretty well.

Note he talks about the F-150 ecoboost and not the Raptor ecoboost and it's a first gen 2014 ecoboost so just use it for informational purposes! The video is here:

He describes the issue as being that the chain(s) have stretched enough and the tensioner can no longer compensate and you get the startup rattle.

Here is another with an update on the update

Anyway. It sucks because we can't do anything about it. It seems the issue has been around for a while so yeah, not sure why.

I referenced TSB 15-0131 on here and was quickly informed that is a completely different motor, which we all know. My 2012 FX4 eco had it. I traded it in for a Raptor, and now my brand new 2018 raptor is in the shop for it. Same exact issue. Can’t believe they haven’t fixed this yet...


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[smurfslayer]

He describes the issue as being that the chain(s) have stretched enough and the tensioner can no longer compensate and you get the startup rattle.

So sure, that’s a possibility with either a defective batch of chains, or tensioners that don’t have enough movement to compensate, but... How exactly would the phasers cause the chains to stretch more or contribute to it? Eventually, all timing chains would end up in this condition given enough time. Anyone who’s run a chain final drive motorcycle probably understands this.

I’m thinking these would be separate issues, fixed under the “in for a penny, in for a pound” principle. Again, if there isn’t heavy run out for the mileage, it probably doesn’t make sense to swap out the chains under a warranty claim. Now, if the tech said the chains were stretched more than he thought he liked but couldn’t warranty them, I’d spring for new chains and be done.

 

[WraptorBoy]

I agree. His explanation is a quick overview of the issue and all of it doesn't quite add up but it's also a 5 minute explanation. I shared it because it does describe exactly what the result of the issue is.. even to where he explains why, after some have had the repair, the issue comes back.

Again, to the people watching the vids, they're informational and helpful but shouldn't be taken as definitive...

All I can say is I had a 1974 Ford Gran Torino Elite, 400ci, 6.6 liter V8, 4bbl and swapped out the pumpkin myself. 74K on the odo (yeah prob went around once). I was at 3K rpm at 60MPH lol. 30 years old and the engine was perfect and it never had timing chain issues

Honestly, I think the safest explanation is build quality. This would really explain everything. The engines are assembled by hand so it's real easy to get tolerances off and a few engines here and there get though out of spec, unfortunately. Sucks.

 

[Crash45]

Who knows, but for some reason, in my head, I see a phaser rocking back and forth or wiggling causing a rattle. Kinda like how a bad lifter sounds, but times 4. It doesn’t sound like a chain slap to me, but what do I know...


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