Black widow suspension set up

[Squatting Dog]

Talked to Jarrett... New springs like Yukon Joes on the way.. So anyone with the original rpg/national stds and are sagging talk to rpg...

-Greg

 

[pat'sRAPTOR]

Awesome! Yea I need to give him a call cause I've had mine for
Over a year and they're Lookin pretty bad

 

[kawie95]

It is official.. The springs on the black widow are sacked, there is no doubt about it. Leaf springs DO NOT look like a "W" when lightly loaded with 200 lbs in the bed.. Totally unacceptable!

At this point I will not and can not recommend RPG/standard national springs.

-Greg

I heard this a long time ago, Deaver is just a better spring from what I heard.

 

[BlackMamba]

My rear suspension is the same as Greg's (ICON 3.0s, RPG Stage 3 with the "-1.5" National leaf springs). So, in light of Greg's recent problems, I thought I would take some measurements and pictures of my set up today as I experimented with my ICON settings. Contemplated starting a new thread, but decided to just hi-jack this one for a bit.

I started with an empty bed and then loaded the bed with most of my standard off road stuff. Truck has ICON 3.0s coil overs, Outlaw UCAs, and spindles with Outlaw gussets. Riding on stock wheels and stock BFGs.

EMPTY BED

Measurement from ground to bottom of rear fender flare: 42"
Distance between fully charged Fox bump stop and RPG strike plate: 2 1/2"

ICONS are almost fully open.
Short tube: open
Long tube: 7
Rebound tube: open minus 1/2 turn

Here is a pic of the leafs and the bump:



One of the streets in my neighborhood has 3 of these speed bumps in a row over about a 1/4 mile. This pic shows probably the flatest one. Uncomfortable to hit those bumps in my wife's F-150 at more than 15-20 mph. I hit each one at 35 mph as I was experimenting with my ICON settings.



So my truck took the speed bumps at 35 mph with the above ICON settings (very soft) and an empty bed and the bumps were barely hit (only about 1/16" of piston shaft was wiped clean).

LOADED BED

Next I loaded up the bed with 4 tool boxes (compressor, fluids, recovery gear, tools, etc.), cooler (with a 30lb bag of dog food and a 15lb weight to simulate a loaded cooler), 2nd spare tire, full 5 gallon water jug, shovel and axe. Guesstimate: 300 lbs. Missing - camping gear, clothes, etc. - maybe another 50 lbs.

I did not change the ICON settings. Still almost wide open.

Here is a pic of the loaded bed:



Here are the measurements:

Ground to bottom of fender flare: 41 1/4"
Bump to strike plate: 1 3/4"

So rear has dropped 3/4".

Here is a pic of the leafs and the bump stop with the loaded bed:



Then I drove over the same speed bumps at 35 mph with 300lbs in bed (with ICONs set very soft). Bumps were worked only a little more. At most about 1/2" of piston shaft wiped clean now (maybe a little less).

Ultimately, I closed the valves on the ICONs a little more to tighten up the ride but still relatively soft in relation to ICON recommended settings.

TAKE AWAYS

Greg's leafs may be toast but mine appear to be holding in there, even with 300 lbs in bed. I don't have measurements or pics from install, so I may be sagging some. My leafs have about 15,000 miles on them including a couple trips to Cycle Ranch (with approximately 50 jumps on the big table top with a partially loaded bed - probably 200-225 lbs). And some other off-roading in Arizona. Most of my miles are on I-10 as a daily driver, but the leafs have been worked some under a load.

If money grew on trees, I would probably buy new leafs (+2) to allow the ICONs to work free of any interference by the bumps. Curious to see how my current set up works once I hit the dirt in Baja and at TRR 2013. If it is causing the truck to underperform, I guess I will get new leafs.

Another issue remains open which has been discussed in another thread - leafs have slid off front passenger bushing and rub against the mount. RPG and National are looking into this issue and hopefully a resolution will be presented soon. Understand that there are a bunch of trucks in California (driven much harder than mine) with the National springs that don't have the bushing/mount issue. Frustrating, but know that RPG is on it.

I will continue to experiment with the ICON settings, but thoughts on any of the above are appreciated.

 

[BIRDMAN]

what is the idea behind lowering the rear with these springs? why would you want to decrease an already lacking up travel and put the axle closer to the frame?

 

[Squatting Dog]

My rear suspension is the same as Greg's (ICON 3.0s, RPG Stage 3 with the "-1.5" National leaf springs). So, in light of Greg's recent problems, I thought I would take some measurements and pictures of my set up today as I experimented with my ICON settings. Contemplated starting a new thread, but decided to just hi-jack this one for a bit.

I started with an empty bed and then loaded the bed with most of my standard off road stuff. Truck has ICON 3.0s coil overs, Outlaw UCAs, and spindles with Outlaw gussets. Riding on stock wheels and stock BFGs.

EMPTY BED

Measurement from ground to bottom of rear fender flare: 42"
Distance between fully charged Fox bump stop and RPG strike plate: 2 1/2"

ICONS are almost fully open.
Short tube: open
Long tube: 7
Rebound tube: open minus 1/2 turn

Here is a pic of the leafs and the bump:



One of the streets in my neighborhood has 3 of these speed bumps in a row over about a 1/4 mile. This pic shows probably the flatest one. Uncomfortable to hit those bumps in my wife's F-150 at more than 15-20 mph. I hit each one at 35 mph as I was experimenting with my ICON settings.



So my truck took the speed bumps at 35 mph with the above ICON settings (very soft) and an empty bed and the bumps were barely hit (only about 1/16" of piston shaft was wiped clean).

LOADED BED

Next I loaded up the bed with 4 tool boxes (compressor, fluids, recovery gear, tools, etc.), cooler (with a 30lb bag of dog food and a 15lb weight to simulate a loaded cooler), 2nd spare tire, full 5 gallon water jug, shovel and axe. Guesstimate: 300 lbs. Missing - camping gear, clothes, etc. - maybe another 50 lbs.

I did not change the ICON settings. Still almost wide open.

Here is a pic of the loaded bed:



Here are the measurements:

Ground to bottom of fender flare: 41 1/4"
Bump to strike plate: 1 3/4"

So rear has dropped 3/4".

Here is a pic of the leafs and the bump stop with the loaded bed:



Then I drove over the same speed bumps at 35 mph with 300lbs in bed (with ICONs set very soft). Bumps were worked only a little more. At most about 1/2" of piston shaft wiped clean now (maybe a little less).

Ultimately, I closed the valves on the ICONs a little more to tighten up the ride but still relatively soft in relation to ICON recommended settings.

TAKE AWAYS

Greg's leafs may be toast but mine appear to be holding in there, even with 300 lbs in bed. I don't have measurements or pics from install, so I may be sagging some. My leafs have about 15,000 miles on them including a couple trips to Cycle Ranch (with approximately 50 jumps on the big table top with a partially loaded bed - probably 200-225 lbs). And some other off-roading in Arizona. Most of my miles are on I-10 as a daily driver, but the leafs have been worked some under a load.

If money grew on trees, I would probably buy new leafs (+1 or +2) to allow the ICONs to work free of any interference by the bumps. Curious to see how my current set up works once I hit the dirt in Baja and at TRR 2013. If it is causing the truck to underperform, I guess I will get new leafs.

Another issue remains open which has been discussed in another thread - leafs have slid off front passenger bushing and rub against the mount. RPG and National are looking into this issue and hopefully a resolution will be presented soon. Understand that there are a bunch of trucks in California (driven much harder than mine) with the National springs that don't have the bushing/mount issue. Frustrating, but know that RPG is on it.

I will continue to experiment with the ICON settings, but thoughts on any of the above are appreciated.

That is what I did on the way up here, I adjusted the shocks to help.. Where my sagging ass sets is the end of first compression zone and beginning of second compression zone. So if I cranked rebound up, it work progressively pump itself up.. But would settle back down when I stopped driving. And it rode like total shit. Finally found a happy medium that was tolerable but not acceptable.

That is the nice thing about the icon shocks you can easily adjustable..

-Greg

 

[BIRDMAN]

You "Liked" my post above Greg but could you explain what you were going for? I'm sure there's a reason I just don't know enough about it.

Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk 2

 

[Squatting Dog]

At the time I bought said "stage 3" kit. It was their only offering... 012bluesvt, blackmamba, and myself have those springs.. RPG is going to replace them with correct level springs..

-Greg

 

[BIRDMAN]

Oh I see. So it isn't something RPG offers anymore ?

Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk 2

 

[bstoner59]

I heard this a long time ago, Deaver is just a better spring from what I heard.

I am probably the only guy to have both Deaver and National springs on my Raptor and I will pick National any day.