Anyone go from a Gen 3 Raptor to EV Lightning ?

[CigarPundit]

LOL

 

[downforce137]

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/06/1091250692/esi-energy-bald-eagles

do you think this is green? good for the environment?

what about the disposal/recycling? they are just cutting up old wind turbines and burying them in landfills, are they not?

we currently have a very convenient infrastructure in place that allows you to easily and quickly put a fuel into your vehicle and be on your way. the technology and infrastructure is no where near the levels that would be needed for everyone, or maybe even 25% of the driving public to own a full electric vehicle.. the grid cannot even...

once again, politicians need a return on their investment portfolio utilizing insider trading, and we all pay.

 

[engineer]

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/06/1091250692/esi-energy-bald-eagles

do you think this is green? good for the environment?

what about the disposal/recycling? they are just cutting up old wind turbines and burying them in landfills, are they not?

we currently have a very convenient infrastructure in place that allows you to easily and quickly put a fuel into your vehicle and be on your way. the technology and infrastructure is no where near the levels that would be needed for everyone, or maybe even 25% of the driving public to own a full electric vehicle.. the grid cannot even...

once again, politicians need a return on their investment portfolio utilizing insider trading, and we all pay.

Should we get rid of all windows because millions of birds die every year from crashing into them? Have you bothered to read any papers about the affects of vehicle exhaust (and related emissions) on health, quality of life, and longevity? Do you have complaints about the solar panels sitting on my roof that charge my non-Raptor (and power my home) for essentially free? Last I checked they haven't snuck off of my roof to beat up any endangered species

We do currently have very convenient ICE infrastructure in place. Do you think that was created overnight? Then why do you expect EV charging infrastructure to also be created overnight and be completely ready for a 100% changeover (that nobody sane expects or demands to happen)? Progress happens slowly, but it happens nonetheless.

You would have made the same arguments in favor of horses over automobiles: "Look at all of this grass conveniently everywhere to fuel my horse! There aren't enough of these 'gasoline stations' for everyone to own a gasoline powered vehicle! Look how many squirrels and animals die from being hit by automobiles--my horse doesn't do any of that! When my horse dies its body decomposes--these automobiles are cut up and buried in landfills!" And yet here we are, a century later, not only happily driving around in those silly gasoline powered vehicles, but advocating that they are the best and we shouldn't change

Edit: it also seems that article is less about those evil bird killing windmills and more about that company taking no steps that were known to mitigate against it "The company was warned prior to building the wind farms in New Mexico and Wyoming that they would kill birds, but it proceeded anyway and at times ignored advice from federal wildlife officials about how to minimize the deaths, according to court documents."

 

[CigarPundit]

I really am too old for this $hit, so I’m getting out, but the dead birds, whales, and such (not to mention how they destroy the natural beauty of our landscapes and coastlines, destroy fisheries, etc.) are only a very small part of it. The big problem is energy density (or rather, the lack thereof), land use, reliability, energy storage, and cost vs. output. Windmills are possibly The most absurd government boondoggle of them all. They 100% would not exist without government interference. There is absolutely no rational market for them whatsoever. Ridiculous.

 

[CigarPundit]

Should we get rid of all windows because millions of birds die every year from crashing into them? Have you bothered to read any papers about the affects of vehicle exhaust (and related emissions) on health, quality of life, and longevity? Do you have complaints about the solar panels sitting on my roof that charge my non-Raptor (and power my home) for essentially free? Last I checked they haven't snuck off of my roof to beat up any endangered species

We do currently have very convenient ICE infrastructure in place. Do you think that was created overnight? Then why do you expect EV charging infrastructure to also be created overnight and be completely ready for a 100% changeover (that nobody sane expects or demands to happen)? Progress happens slowly, but it happens nonetheless.

You would have made the same arguments in favor of horses over automobiles: "Look at all of this grass conveniently everywhere to fuel my horse! There aren't enough of these 'gasoline stations' for everyone to own a gasoline powered vehicle! Look how many squirrels and animals die from being hit by automobiles--my horse doesn't do any of that! When my horse dies its body decomposes--these automobiles are cut up and buried in landfills!" And yet here we are, a century later, not only happily driving around in those silly gasoline powered vehicles, but advocating that they are the best and we shouldn't change

Edit: it also seems that article is less about those evil bird killing windmills and more about that company taking no steps that were known to mitigate against it "The company was warned prior to building the wind farms in New Mexico and Wyoming that they would kill birds, but it proceeded anyway and at times ignored advice from federal wildlife officials about how to minimize the deaths, according to court documents."

You seem to read a lot of “papers”, but not the news. Your displayed ignorance of the issues with China is remarkable to say the least.

 

[engineer]

I really am too old for this $hit, so I’m getting out, but the dead birds, whales, and such (not to mention how they destroy the natural beauty of our landscapes and coastlines, destroy fisheries, etc.) are only a very small part of it. The big problem is energy density (or rather, the lack thereof), land use, reliability, energy storage, and cost vs. output. Windmills are possibly The most absurd government boondoggle of them all. They 100% would not exist without government interference. There is absolutely no rational market for them whatsoever. Ridiculous.

Spend some actual time researching, from objective sources, all of those things and you just might be surprised by what you find out. You might just realize there are strong incentives from the companies that stand to lose (e.g. oil companies) to spread FUD, misinformation, and outright lies to get people like us to demand renewable sources no longer be pursued and that we instead continue to depend on them and our cartel friends in OPEC.

You complain about dead birds, whales, destruction of natural beauty, coastlines, fisheries, and somehow have forgotten about thousands of oil spills and tons of environmental damage related to decades of oil dependency, which is so strange to me. Seems like maybe you've made up your mind, are ignoring inconvenient things, and are focusing only on the things that support your beliefs.

Also, if I have to choose between powering my home and my vehicle with the sun or lining the pockets of royals halfway around the world so they can live lavish lifestyles and raise my fuel costs when they feel like it, I'm picking renewable sources that I control 100% of the time.

 

[engineer]

You seem to read a lot of “papers”, but not the news. Your displayed ignorance of the issues with China is remarkable to say the least.

I read both, but I find more truth in actual scientific papers, with data instead of editorialization, than I do in the news.

You seem to be confused. My "displayed ignorance of the issues with China" is me asking what you're rambling on about and how it relates to the topic. I've spent enough time in China by virtue of my line of work to know I'm no fan of what they're doing and how they do it. Maybe you said it elsewhere in this thread, but I'm not sifting through 20 pages of posts to see you complain about China while conveniently ignoring the OPEC cartel countries in the Middle East. "Your displayed ignorance of the issues with the Middle East is remarkable to say the least. Horses are the best!"

It's also interesting that you didn't address a single point in the post that you replied to

 

[Sitdown]

i heard the same type of review on the machE from a fellow raptor owner... @Sitdown

Didnt read the whole thread but I have both and am not planning on keeping the Lightning. I like the truck, it's fun to drive around town and I love having a full charge every morning.

I have range anxiety. People say "don't worry about it" and all of that, but even a two hour trip drives me up the wall with the fear of not making it. The charging system (in Louisiana/Texas) is NOT ready for EVs yet. It's horribly unreliable and not spaced well for the range this truck has. I've counted on multiple chargers that ended up not working or being behind a fence.

People don't realize this but you can charge to 100% the night before a trip BUT the road chargers will not let you go past 80ish. You generally try to stop around 10-20% so that means you are really at 60% working range unless you like pushing limits...which is hard in areas with fewer chargers. Charging at a hotel or other level 1/2, it is so slow that it is impractical unless you are there for a day.

My range on the interstate drops 1/4-1/3. If you go 60 it isn't as bad but 80mph kills the m/kWh. It doesn't get too cold here but I've still seen a drop in winter range.

I'm coming up on my 10k service on the Lightning. To be fair, it hasn't been in the shop once and my 23 Raptor has been in the shop for 7 weeks since I got it in Dec 22.

Also haven't read all of the thread, but more Negative EV feedback here... Roadtrips are a huge PITA, tried several and will never do it again.

I got one of the earlier GTPEs that were shipped for my wife. Overlooking the bait and switch on HP/TQ, Electric/Software Bugs and it being outta commission for a month the first winter... it is still a fun cool car for daily use local or commuting, and I got under sticker, early promo FO % rate and full tax credit, so a great deal for me....

Beyond that, IMO, EVs have no place in the Midwest for roadtrips, especially with kids. Range anxiety is soooooo real and not fun, cant emphasize this enough, even with great planning. All the stated high range #s are all BS.... In perfect weather, driving 55mph, and using no climate conditioning Id struggle to get those figures. When you stop your only going to ~80% so second leg is a reduced range. Heated seats help driver and passenger to not use eHeat, but a kid in the back seat is SOL. Who drives 55mph... Even in perfect condition if you drive 80, your lucky to get 100 miles. Taking a Gas vehicle on a trip after doing one in an EV is the most liberating thing ever ha

Am not likley to buy out the GTPE at end of 3yrs. If they released an EV Explorer more comparable to ours here (not like new euro one), in a ST or fast variant i might be open to buy one again for my wife, but still unlikely to use for trips. Assuming there's a full tax credit for US made/Union etc...

 

[thatJeepguy]

Some interesting claims in here that I'd love to see backed up with any sort of evidence e.g. windmills/solar/evs not being green, things being "insane from a scientific perspective," and how this all relates to threats from China. Also interesting that you see cronyism/government control and a lack of being "green" as it relates to EVs, but somehow don't see it when it comes to Big Oil.

I wonder what some of you would have been like if you were born 100 years earlier. No doubt you'd be saying your horses are just fine, these newfangled automobiles are loud and dangerous, they smell bad, horses have been proven for thousands of years, it's all about cronyism and government controlling your source of fuel, your horse's fuel grows on the side of the road and your horse's exhaust fertilizes the soil, etc.

“windmills/solar/evs not being green, things being”

Because you are ripping out existing vegetation/ dredging ocean floors / habitats to emplace technology that produces very small net gain of electricity after you add resistance and length of distance traveled (cmon bro yr an engineer you should know this). Windmills mechanically destroy themselves after about 7 years about when they are about to reach net zero line equal to what it took to produce them( law of thermal dynamics) you should know this bro cmon. Solar panels are inefficient in low temps and also do not produce at night or during the first and last 2 hours of the day.


“how this all relates to threats from China”

The US has minimal battery production , contrast that with China. Cmon at least be honest with yourself…

“Also interesting that you see cronyism/government control and a lack of being "green" as it relates to EVs”

Everything is ****** dory now but as soon as they flip the switch or power goes out what is your contingency? How about when they move to tax batteries or miles traveled and they start looking at your odometer?

Should we get rid of all windows because millions of birds die every year from crashing into them? Have you bothered to read any papers about the affects of vehicle exhaust (and related emissions) on health, quality of life, and longevity? Do you have complaints about the solar panels sitting on my roof that charge my non-Raptor (and power my home) for essentially free? Last I checked they haven't snuck off of my roof to beat up any endangered species

We do currently have very convenient ICE infrastructure in place. Do you think that was created overnight? Then why do you expect EV charging infrastructure to also be created overnight and be completely ready for a 100% changeover (that nobody sane expects or demands to happen)? Progress happens slowly, but it happens nonetheless.

You would have made the same arguments in favor of horses over automobiles: "Look at all of this grass conveniently everywhere to fuel my horse! There aren't enough of these 'gasoline stations' for everyone to own a gasoline powered vehicle! Look how many squirrels and animals die from being hit by automobiles--my horse doesn't do any of that! When my horse dies its body decomposes--these automobiles are cut up and buried in landfills!" And yet here we are, a century later, not only happily driving around in those silly gasoline powered vehicles, but advocating that they are the best and we shouldn't change

Edit: it also seems that article is less about those evil bird killing windmills and more about that company taking no steps that were known to mitigate against it "The company was warned prior to building the wind farms in New Mexico and Wyoming that they would kill birds, but it proceeded anyway and at times ignored advice from federal wildlife officials about how to minimize the deaths, according to court documents."

smug lib detected…

 

[engineer]

“windmills/solar/evs not being green, things being”

Because you are ripping out existing vegetation/ dredging ocean floors / habitats to emplace technology that produces very small net gain of electricity after you add resistance and length of distance traveled (cmon bro yr an engineer you should know this). Windmills mechanically destroy themselves after about 7 years about when they are about to reach net zero line equal to what it took to produce them( law of thermal dynamics) you should know this bro cmon. Solar panels are inefficient in low temps and also do not produce at night or during the first and last 2 hours of the day.


“how this all relates to threats from China”

The US has minimal battery production , contrast that with China. Cmon at least be honest with yourself…

“Also interesting that you see cronyism/government control and a lack of being "green" as it relates to EVs”

Everything is ****** dory now but as soon as they flip the switch or power goes out what is your contingency? How about when they move to tax batteries or miles traveled and they start looking at your odometer?

smug lib detected…

You would have made all of these same arguments in favor of keeping horses instead of moving to cars. "You are ripping out existing things to drill for oil, build gas stations, etc. My horse's fuel grows on the side of the road!"

The US has minimal battery production now. That is changing.

Also please don't try to throw out engineering terms as a challenge. If you think I'm being smug now, you will definitely not like how I educate you about first principles and how the actual engineers, many of who I personally know, solve these known problems. "Law of thermal dynamics", whatever you're attempting to incorrectly refer to, has nothing to do with "windmills mechanically destroy[ing] themselves after about 7 years" (would love a source on this since I know engineers that worked at GE on windmill reliability that would laugh at your claim).

smug lib detected…

Ahh there it is...that lovely tribalism that this always seem to boil down to. "This guy is from California and he doesn't hate EVs and green energy and doesn't bathe in oil every day, GET HIM!" You'd be shocked to find out what my political leanings actually are . Also there's nothing smug about what I wrote there--just cold hard facts and objective reality.

If you want to have an honest discussion about the issues facing mass EV adoption, which there are many (but they're solvable and being solved), I'm happy to do that. If you want to make this about lame identity politics, you're on your own.