Anyone go from a Gen 3 Raptor to EV Lightning ?

[MattR]

You beat me to the video and explained better as well!

As Engineer just posted, ICE vehicles catch fire significantly more often than EVs.

I'm not sure if the foam they have for vehicle fires works on them, though.

 

[MattR]

Keep telling yourself that. My 20 years of experience with lithium batteries tells me different. It's fine if you replace your vehicle every five years or less, assuming you don't give a crap about the waste and the associated environmental damage, but ICE engines go way longer, and can be fixed. That's indisputable. Either way, the government boondoggle and all that comes with it is too much for me to swallow. China couldn't have written a better playbook. And the Washington swamp creatures just slurp it up. Disgusting.

I haven't really read stories about Tesla vehicles that aren't useable due to battery life. I think the oldest Model S' are over 10yo.

I do see battery disposal as being a problem in the future, if a new battery technology isn't released. I definitely see a market in battery rejuvenation appearing in the next few years, or even some sort of recycling like we currently see with lead acid batteries.

 

[ToadSmasher2K1]

EV’s suck. Case closed

Visit treehuggersforum.com for further discussion on EVs.

 

[CigarPundit]

I haven't really read stories about Tesla vehicles that aren't useable due to battery life. I think the oldest Model S' are over 10yo.

I do see battery disposal as being a problem in the future, if a new battery technology isn't released. I definitely see a market in battery rejuvenation appearing in the next few years, or even some sort of recycling like we currently see with lead acid batteries.

Well, Tesla batteries may be very high quality and very well managed. R/C batteries are pushed pretty hard and I can tell you that they degrade very noticeably over time. I did know several people with Teslas and other EVs (like the Leaf) that had noticeable battery degradation in five years. I'm sure not charging beyond 80% is very helpful, but the people I knew did not do that because of range anxiety for those unexpected events that may require more travel than just the commute. Either way...not for me.

 

[engineer]

Keep telling yourself that. My 20 years of experience with lithium batteries tells me different. It's fine if you replace your vehicle every five years or less, assuming you don't give a crap about the waste and the associated environmental damage, but ICE engines go way longer, and can be fixed. That's indisputable. Either way, the government boondoggle and all that comes with it is too much for me to swallow. China couldn't have written a better playbook. And the Washington swamp creatures just slurp it up. Disgusting.

Keep telling myself what? I have actual experience with EV ownership and a slew of friends, family, and co-workers (50+ if I had to estimate) that own EVs and have the same experience. Nobody is replacing their vehicles due to battery degradation in 5 years. As I said in the post you directly quoted, we've seen 7% degradation in 5 years with less-than-ideal charging. We won't need to replace this vehicle any time in the next 10 years due to battery degradation.

You talk about environmental damage due to batteries, but have somehow forgotten about ICE emissions and all that goes into the production and transport of fuels? Have you looked at a lifecycle analysis of an EV environmental impact compared to ICE?

I also happen to know several of the battery engineers that work(ed) at Tesla (dating back to pre-Model S) days, so I have insight into how these battery systems are designed with safety, longevity, and performance in mind. I guess that might not be much compared to your 20 years of experience swapping TV remote batteries though

 

[MattR]

Keep telling myself what? I have actual experience with EV ownership and a slew of friends, family, and co-workers (50+ if I had to estimate) that own EVs and have the same experience. Nobody is replacing their vehicles due to battery degradation in 5 years. As I said in the post you directly quoted, we've seen 7% degradation in 5 years with less-than-ideal charging. We won't need to replace this vehicle any time in the next 10 years due to battery degradation.

You talk about environmental damage due to batteries, but have somehow forgotten about ICE emissions? Have you looked at a lifecycle analysis of an EV environmental impact compared to ICE?

I also happen to know several of the battery engineers that work(ed) at Tesla (dating back to pre-Model S) days, so I have insight into how these battery systems are designed with safety, longevity, and performance in mind. I guess that might not be much compared to your 20 years of experience swapping TV remote batteries though

It's pretty nuts to get on these forums or FB and see the number of "EV Experts" that have 6,000 reasons why not to buy an EV and make sure you remind everyone why they won't buy it...but don't have any EV experience and generally quote the misleading or downright incorrect facts about the platform.

I don't get the hate on new vehicles or tech. I was excited to see the Bronco. I was excited to see the Mach-E. New technology always takes a little work to be usable, but I was hoping for a powertboost option for the Raptor and was excited to trade my G1 6.2 for a tt3.5 in the g3 so I guess I'm in the minority.

 

[engineer]

It's pretty nuts to get on these forums or FB and see the number of "EV Experts" that have 6,000 reasons why not to buy an EV and make sure you remind everyone why they won't buy it...but don't have any EV experience and generally quote the misleading or downright wrong facts about the platform.

I don't get the hate on new vehicles or tech. I was excited to see the Bronco. I was excited to see the Mach-E. New technology always takes a little work to be usable, but I was hoping for a powertboost option for the Raptor and was excited to trade my G1 6.2 for a tt3.5 in the g3 so I guess I'm in the minority.

100% this. The strongest opinions about how awful EVs are always come from those that have never owned one and have little-to-no experience with them. It's almost like the mere existence of EVs is a personal attack on them. More EVs and Priuses on the road means cheaper gas to fill my thirsty Raptor

I have a Raptor that I love. I have a Model 3 that I like (for different reasons). I prefer to drive the Raptor, but find tremendous value in owning and driving the Model 3. The stupid thing charges via sunlight (!) and I can't remember the last time I spent a penny on it.

 

[CigarPundit]

I'm too old to continue arguing politics on the Internet. But yeah, the green movement and so-called environmentalists in this country have me really fed up, because what they advocate is not "green" (windmills, solar, evs), but rather, corrupt government cronyism that always leads to more control. So much of it is literally insane from a scientific perspective, but the government incentives are so strong that it even biases science itself. I've been in and driven plenty of Teslas (I was a big firm lawyer in LA for 30 years) and, I admit, they're fun. The acceleration and technology are next level and they're cool as shit. But they're not green and they are the worst kind of government boondoggle, especially considering the threats we currently face from China. We should be economically decoupling, not mandating dependence. It's a serious problem. I wish more people appreciated this.

 

[ToadSmasher2K1]

I'm too old to continue arguing politics on the Internet. But yeah, the green movement and so-called environmentalists in this country have me really fed up, because what they advocate is not "green" (windmills, solar, evs), but rather, corrupt government cronyism that always leads to more control. So much of it is literally insane from a scientific perspective, but the government incentives are so strong that it even biases science itself. I've been in and driven plenty of Teslas (I was a big firm lawyer in LA for 30 years) and, I admit, they're fun. The acceleration and technology are next level and they're cool as shit. But they're not green and they are the worst kind of government boondoggle, especially considering the threats we currently face from China. We should be economically decoupling, not mandating dependence. It's a serious problem. I wish more people appreciated this.

Bingo

 

[engineer]

I'm too old to continue arguing politics on the Internet. But yeah, the green movement and so-called environmentalists in this country have me really fed up, because what they advocate is not "green" (windmills, solar, evs), but rather, corrupt government cronyism that always leads to more control. So much of it is literally insane from a scientific perspective, but the government incentives are so strong that it even biases science itself. I've been in and driven plenty of Teslas (I was a big firm lawyer in LA for 30 years) and, I admit, they're fun. The acceleration and technology are next level and they're cool as shit. But they're not green and they are the worst kind of government boondoggle, especially considering the threats we currently face from China. We should be economically decoupling, not mandating dependence. It's a serious problem. I wish more people appreciated this.

Some interesting claims in here that I'd love to see backed up with any sort of evidence e.g. windmills/solar/evs not being green, things being "insane from a scientific perspective," and how this all relates to threats from China. Also interesting that you see cronyism/government control and a lack of being "green" as it relates to EVs, but somehow don't see it when it comes to Big Oil.

I wonder what some of you would have been like if you were born 100 years earlier. No doubt you'd be saying your horses are just fine, these newfangled automobiles are loud and dangerous, they smell bad, horses have been proven for thousands of years, it's all about cronyism and government controlling your source of fuel, your horse's fuel grows on the side of the road and your horse's exhaust fertilizes the soil, etc.