Anybody else over the new Raptor R already?

[melvimbe]

Taking into account the kind of deal you're able to broker shouldn't really be considered when looking at how the factory priced the truck. I was offered a Raptor R at MSRP, but I declined. I also see that Dan Cummins has a Mojave TRX online for $20k over MSRP. But that doesn't mean the TRX, generally speaking, is overpriced, or is overpriced when compared to a Raptor R. It just means that TRX has been overpriced by the dealer - not the manufacturer.

But since you cannot buy direct from the manufacturer, only through dealers, the MSRP is practically useless to consumers. The price for which a consumer can realistically obtain a product is what should be used. Throw out MSRP, outlier special deals in limited numbers or from your brother-in-law.

And really, 'over-priced' is sort of vague, because it implies value per price, and value can be very subjective. Since the R is selling at the high prices, as are Raptors and most other vehicles, it's hard to say that the R is overpriced...in this market. For a lot of individuals, it absolutely is overpriced, but clearly Ford has enough buyers.

As far as the general question of being over the R...I don't think I was that in to. While the HP is appealing, the extra cost to own in terms of price, gas, insurance, and whatever else far outweighs the HP. I would have to have a lot more disposable income for that to make sense to me.

Honestly, as much as I'm getting the itch to upgrade like I typically do around 4 years of owning a vehicle, still feels like a horrible time to be upgrading vehicles, and the new Raptor and any other vehicle are not giant leaps better than my Gen2. This is especially true since I can't easily shop around at dealerships like I used to. Maybe things will change a few years from now, but doesn't look like I want to be a buyer of any vehicle anytime soon.

 

[Reaper308]

Like my gen 2 - would rather have a GT500.

That’s my plan right now keep my Gen 2 with all its mods and keep modding, after buying my wife and daughter new cars my next is a new Shelby GT500

 

[BigBlue20]

Welcome to our free market economy where the actual price is really set by what people are ready to pay! And as long as that is the case, items made in reduced quantities will always command a higher purchase price. The true problem is that there are far too many folks with fat wallets and lots of disposable income. Just look at the Muscle Car market segment of classic cars. We are really our own worst enemies. As long as we worship our Raptors, prices will remain outrageous. This whole Raptor R fever is created by our desires to own something that no one really needs, but want! There is no such thing as “too much” money as long as people are lining up to pay those amounts. Welcome to the new reality!

 

[DINOZR]

I understand there are a few dealers discounting TRXs, but that really isn't the norm. All the pre-owned TRXs in my area are still significantly over the original sticker because the dealers sell them for over MSRP here. And I acknowledged how difficult it would be to get a Raptor R and the terrible games the Ford dealers play.

But none of that is related to the point I was actually trying to make. I really only took issue with what seemed to be the position the OP took in regard to Ford overpricing the truck. I was pointing out that a $110k MSRP seems about right for a Raptor R given that a comparably equipped TRX runs in the $102-103k MSRP range.

Taking into account the kind of deal you're able to broker shouldn't really be considered when looking at how the factory priced the truck. I was offered a Raptor R at MSRP, but I declined. I also see that Dan Cummins has a Mojave TRX online for $20k over MSRP. But that doesn't mean the TRX, generally speaking, is overpriced, or is overpriced when compared to a Raptor R. It just means that TRX has been overpriced by the dealer - not the manufacturer.

I don't think our views are all that dissimilar - perhaps our perspectives are. You're comparing transactional sales data when comparing the 2 trucks, and I am comparing the MSRPs...

I actually agree with you. You are coming at it from the manufacturer's perspective. I am coming at it from the consumer's perspective. Now I do contend that the consumer's perspective is what will determine the "success" of the truck. In essence, you're giving Ford credit for good intentions. And I'm saying I don't care about intentions, I only care about what I can purchase in the market. Also, I think it's fair to hold Ford accountable for their dealer allocation model. We see with the TRX that you absolutely do not have to use that model. Ram will make a TRX for literally anybody that wants to order one. That is not the case for the Raptor R, and it drives the market price of the Raptor R, and I think that will mean the Raptor R ultimately has very little impact on the super truck market.

 

[MDJAK]

I actually may have a fresh take on this beaten to death like a government mule thread.

I have at least one, and probably more, flaws in my personality. I love new, shiny things. I’ve traded in brand new Porsches because I fell out of love with the color or wanted a better model after a week or two of ownership. Not because I’m rich. Because I’m STUPID.

But I digress.

For reasons that escape me, I have very little to no desire for the Raptor R. It actually surprises me as I know me. I mean, all things equal, which they never are, at a reasonable price, readily available, no ADM, I’d probably get one. But the 109k sticker, the outlandish ADM that will be tacked on, and the difficulty in getting one has me on the sidelines at least for the time being.

I was “lucky” that I “only” paid sticker for my Gen3. I refuse to pay ADM.

 

[Skyfrog]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I am seeing signs in the economy that point to bad times ahead. Inflation, a housing bubble that is showing signs of breaking, companies laying people off, the Fed increasing rates. Will Ford Dealers be offering trucks with a high ADM when interest rates are at 12%. People will stop buying and prices will drop. I would have been very interested in an R, but since I’m recently retired, I’m done buying new cars. For those who want to buy new, I would wait just a few more months. To me it looks like the house of cards is about to fall.

I went to a local car show and there was an old gentleman with a 1969 Chevelle SS. I told him that was my dream car. He said he had bought it new, (a one owner car). He maintained it very well. I’ll stick with my Gen 1 ($500 under MSRP) and have learned to do all the repair myself. So, I’m going to keep mine in great shape and maybe in 10 years, be relaxing at the car shows like the guy with the SS.

 

[melvimbe]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I am seeing signs in the economy that point to bad times ahead. Inflation, a housing bubble that is showing signs of breaking, companies laying people off, the Fed increasing rates. Will Ford Dealers be offering trucks with a high ADM when interest rates are at 12%. People will stop buying and prices will drop.

We are still a long way from 12% rates, but yes, higher rates are going to have an impact sales volume and pricing. Inflation isn't really going to bring auto prices down though, the other things listed will. I think the auto market will come to most things still being around MSRP, and Ford will offer 0% (or just low) interest options. Maybe dealers will lower prices, because they get more kickback from financing. Not sure.

It's all somewhat weird though since we are going through an unprecedented transition in the auto industry. Hard to really predict on how things will swing. It's a good time not to need a new vehicle.

I think used auto values are going to still remain high, because viewer people can afford a new vehicle and a lot of people aren't going to want an EV as auto manufacturers stop focusing on improvements to ICE vehicles.

Housing is going to be a huge issue, as will be extremely difficult for someone to enter the housing market with outrageous price/sqft, high rates, and little/no credit history. We will be a society of owners and renters, and more of the income inequality that the left hates but keeps pushing on us through policies. And renters make power consumers, further slowing down the economy. I guess the good news is that the younger generation is happy to pay for delivery of everything and buy useless crap...which should help keep the economy moving.

 

[warrior]

I certainly dont need it, love my gen 3, but put my name on my dealers list.

 

[badclam]

Love both our 2022 Gen 3 Raptors. Mines a 37pp, and the wife has a 35 801a. Her's is getting the visual upgrades, color match, wheels & tires, ect. Mine has real beadlocks, 10 ply tires, chase lights, off road lights, extra spares, air compressor, ect, and is getting tuned. If I can get another 50 HP out of mine, I'd be happy..... I think the rollout of the Raptor R is going to be a bigger shit show than the rollout of the Bronco and Raptors has been. There are so many people that ordered Broncos and Raptors over a year ago that have no idea when they will ever see their truck. If they manage to get 3000 "R"s built, I'll be amazed, and they're going to be really, really, expensive. The "R" is going to cost in my estimation at least twice what a 35" Raptor or TRX cost now. More than it's worth to anybody that works for their money.... I have a TRX ordered that will be here toward the end of September. I, like most of you, would love to take a 700HP beast to the dunes, and smoke corvettes at the stop light. The TRX will do that. When I get tired of just going fast in a straight line in a truck, and getting 8 or 9 MPG, I'll dump it, and spend the rest of my days enjoying my modified 37pp....The Raptor "R" is a slap in the face to the Ford loyal customers that have been screwed over lately by unfullfilled orders and ADM fees. At this point, I don't think I'd buy an "R" at MSRP. I'm over it.

 

[Frogger22]

With these prices and loading the truck to the gills with junk Ford has left the working man behind. Just a play thing to show off for the wealthy at this point. We just asked for a V8 option instead of only their V6 that lots of folks don’t want. Instead they make an overpriced trophy truck that nobody can afford full of crap almost nobody will use if you can even bribe your way into one. Good thing I expected nothing, cause they hit the mark. Say what you will about Ram, but at least they give the customer options to degrade the TRX and still get a V8. Ford forgets where they come from.