Why wouldn't Ford put 3.5 EcoBoost in Raptors?

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Reptar

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@Reptar

lol! I test drove both right in a row twice. While I was impressed with the pep in the ecoboost, it just didn't compare to the 6.2

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You can always buy an FX4 with an ecoboost. No disrespect, but you didn't like it enough not to buy a Raptor.

I drove them at a Ford Drive event back in 2010 actually, and all the 2011's were pre-production models. They had them all as equally equipped as possible for an even comparison between the 3.7 V6, 5.0 V8, 3.5 V6, and 6.2 V8. They also had competitor trucks there (tundra, ram, titan, 1500) to compare. They had an 1/8th mile track set up with a tree and time board. I'm a drag racer at heart, so I went in that line umpteen times LOL. My times were within a tenth each time for the 6.2 and 3.5. The 3.7 was a dog. The 5.0 felt better than the old 5.4 but still nothing to write home about. The 6.2 was faster out of the hole, but the 3.5 once 60 feet out with the turbos spooled had a harder pull, and by the 1/8th they were always near tied. They had a score board with the fastest times of the day, and out of the dozen times listed, a half were 6.2 and a half were 3.5, they were that close in the 1/8th for similarily equipped trucks (same cabs, rears, etc.).

They also had a towing circuit, you could tow 6500 lbs with a 6.2 or a 3.5. Now I'm always towing my ~7,000 lb trailer + race truck around so it was a great comparison. The 6.2 towed a lot better than my old 5.4 (even supercharged 5.4), but the power curve of the 3.5 I liked for towing even better. And I liked the feel of EPAS better than the hydraulic steering of the 6.2.

All personal preference. As for the exhaust sound, I have a 2000 HD just shy of 800 rwhp that I hop in when I want to make some noise and go fast. For a DD, I'm fine with a quiet exhaust. I wouldn't put a noisey catback on a 3.5 because I"m not crazy about the 3.5 sound, but the turbo spool and BOVs are a nice trade off if I can't have a V8 tone.

And no, I didn't like the 3.5 enough to get a lower model non-raptor. An FX-4 does nothing to tickle my fancy, a Raptor makes me grin every time I turn the key for the truck as a whole, not the engine itself. I wanted a Raptor no matter what engine came in it, but if I had the choice, it would have been the 3.5L.


Same reason not to buy a 4 cylinder Eco boost in the new Mustang. It's gonna Suck!

I'm actually more interested to see the potential of that thing than the slightly revised 5.0. Guys have already gone 7's in street driven 5.0 Mustangs, so the new updated 5.0 it'll be interesting to see what it does bone stock compared to the older 5.0 bone stock, but it isn't going to be a big surprise with what it can do once modded. The new 4 banger ecoboost stang on the other hand, I can't wait to see what that does stock with ~300 hp, then once modded. Certainly won't beat an equally modded 5.0 stang, but it'll be impressive for being a 4 banger, and much lighter as well.


Certainly that ~1500 curb weight difference doesn't matter right?

I drove an EcoTurd, 5.0 and 6.2 before buying the Raptor. Having a truck that couldn't get out of it's own way and sounds like a Honda Accord wasn't for me. :poop::poop:


I've put both on the scales, it's not 1,500 lbs difference. Explorer Sports are 5,200 lbs with driver and go 14.5 stock, and with an intake, tune, and down pipe they've gone 12.8's. My Raptor was 6,200 lbs with driver at the track and I've gone a best of 14.9 with a catback. With a tune and intake I'm expecting maybe 14.7s. If it were a 3.5 EB, I'd have no doubts it'd be capable of lower 14's if not a high 13. Especially with the general (and relatively accurate) rule of thumb of every 100 lbs = 1/10th, so 1k lbs heavier than the Sport = 1 second slower, that puts 12.8 to 13.8 with just 3 bolt on mods. No way is my 6.2 going 13.8's without a twin screw blower or a big *** shot of nitrous! :emotions133:


Yes once FULLY modded, the 5.0 has a ton of potential, and the 6.2 could make retarded power with a blower, or bored/stroked with ported heads and cams, but that stuff is STUPID money lol. $5-10k easy even for a blower/full exhaust/tune/fuel/supporting mods. An intake, tune, and catback don't gain you much hp with a 6.2. An intake, tune, and downpipe gain a significant chunk of power with the 3.5 for all of what $2k.




PS....I find it funny that half the arguements against the 3.5 ecoboost are just calling it an ecoturd or girly v6 or wimpy exhaust lol. Pretty lame arguement points to make rather than things like mod potential, tow capability, power ratings, fuel economy, etc. The 3.5 supporters dont' call the 6.2 a six point **** instead of six point two lol. The cheesy names to try and bash the 3.5 just make the 6.2 owners sound a little jelly lol
 
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Cleave

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I don't argue mod potential very often cause everyone starts complaining about the cost of modding a 6.2, I don't care about the cost cause it costs money to make power the proper way, as for the ease of gaining power with the 3.5 EB, you already have two turbos, they're being forced to suck air through a restrictive intake and force exhaust out a restrictive cat back system, of course it's gonna be easy to make power just replacing the supporting mods (intake, exhaust, tune), but if you put twin turbos on a 6.2L without replacing those things it would be just as easy or more so to make power once you did, I prefer the 6.2 because it has a much greater power potential and I have the freedom to go whichever route I wish to reach that power potential (n/a, supercharger, turbo, nitrous, any combination I want of the three forms of forced induction) instead of if I change my mind with the EB I'd have to rip all the turbo systems out first before starting back down the road of modifications
 

Ruger

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Concerning dual-plug heads, the contention that they are only used in hemi-head designs is entirely false. The 6.2L engines we run are not hemis.

Dual-plug heads don't only show up in autos and trucks, either. I had a Honda motorcycle that had dual-plug heads. It was for both reliability and performance. The ignition systems for each pair of plugs (it was a V-twin) were entirely separate. If one system failed, you still had a functioning plug in each cylinder to get you home. Piston engine aircraft engines are the same way. BTW, I did have an occasion to find out how it ran on a single set of plugs. One of the two coils failed, and I limped it home on the remaining ignition system. It ran ******.
 

KaiserM715

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Concerning dual-plug heads, the contention that they are only used in hemi-head designs is entirely false. The 6.2L engines we run are not hemis.
His comment was big bore engines. There are plenty of smaller engines that run dual plugs (and aircraft for redundancy).

As far as being a hemi, everything I have seen or heard refers to them as such. You do not see that type of canted valve geometry in any other head type. They are definitely not wedges or inline.
The single overhead cams with variable timing use roller-rockers to act upon the valves which are arranged in a true “hemi” form. Anyone who builds engines knows this is best for breathing capabilities.
Inside The New 2011 Ford 6.2 V8

If you want to argue that it is a crescent, then I might concede that point, but I would still feel that it is debating semantics.
 
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Cleave

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Concerning dual-plug heads, the contention that they are only used in hemi-head designs is entirely false. The 6.2L engines we run are not hemis.

Dual-plug heads don't only show up in autos and trucks, either. I had a Honda motorcycle that had dual-plug heads. It was for both reliability and performance. The ignition systems for each pair of plugs (it was a V-twin) were entirely separate. If one system failed, you still had a functioning plug in each cylinder to get you home. Piston engine aircraft engines are the same way. BTW, I did have an occasion to find out how it ran on a single set of plugs. One of the two coils failed, and I limped it home on the remaining ignition system. It ran ******.

The boss 6.2L is just as much a true hemi as Chrysler's modern "hemi" engines
 
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Ruger

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I have a hardcopy of the original Ford speck sheet on the 6.2L For the SVT Raptor. It says a lot, but there is not one mention of a hemi-type combustion chamber.

I also have a hardcopy of the Ford Media press release entitled "More Power Comes Standard on 6.2 Liter V8 Engine on Tap for More Capable 2011 Ford F-150 Raptor," and again there is no mention of a hemi-type combustion chamber. The closest it comes is, "The roller-rocker shafts allow valve angles to be splayed, resulting in optimized intake and exhaust valve port layout for better engine breathing."
 

Cleave

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I was more trying to say that Chrysler's hemis are not true hemis, not that the boss 6.2L is one, but the valves are arranged in a hemispherical configuration, the heads are semi-hemi in design, a combination of hemispherical and wedge style design

m5lp_1009_08_o+ford_62_liter_engine+combustion_chamber.jpg
 

skyscraper

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My prediction is that Ford will drop the larger 6.2 liter V8 and make the EcoBoost its top engine choice for the redesigned model. This will help them increase their CAFE figures and the majority of their customer base will never notice the difference. One of the reasons I purchased the 2014 Raptor was to get what might be the last of a dying breed. A large displacement V8 engined pickup. It makes no apologies for what it is. It's loud and in-your-face. One day it might be regarded as a relic of the past, of a time when people were able to drive their own vehicles, when we were able to choose vehicles that didn't need to conform to a central planner's vision of our society.

I purchased a '14 for the same reason. Maybe it wont pan out that way, but as you said the CAFE requirements could determine Fords fate with the next series of raptors.

Also, I really wonder about long term reliability of an ecoboost raptor.... I know a lot of guys only plan to keep their trucks for a few years, but personally I want to keep mine for the long haul and would not trust an ecoboost engine to last nearly as long as the 6.2 just purely based on the size of the block alone. Especially when you consider the hell most of these truck are put through.
 
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