The Gen 2 is the Best Raptor Yet and...

[Oceanbnd]

Goes both ways. Just as many G1 nut swingers dropping into threads about G2s and derailing them from being a productive discussion as there are G2 nut swingers.

I'll give FRF credit for trying to separate it and start FR2, but there was already so much material here it was too late. It's a ghost town over there.

Once more trucks are delivered and we can actually start comparing notes and see builds progress I think it will smooth out.

I hope one of the things I can compare is engine longevity because this bad boy is going to be my commuter (granted I only commute 50 miles a day)

 

[_M_]

I hope one of the things I can compare is engine longevity because this bad boy is going to be my commuter (granted I only commute 50 miles a day)

Its not a daily for me, but I usually take a few long trips a year and my 6.2 was solid in that aspect. I suspect this will be too, but time will tell.

I have friends with EB's and they are all extremely pleased with them. I don't know anyone personally that has issues with them, but this is a slightly different creature.

 

[grancuda]

The real question about the V6 2ndGEN is how do you make that little V6 make 600hp like the supercharged 6.2L mills do or more? The V6 2ndGEN is already pumping out 20% more HP than what a standard 3.5L EcoBoost puts out. How much more can really be in there before it's unreliable.

For the ones who just want to leave them stock it's probably the way to go. If you want to really build one up, the 6.2L is still the way to go.

 

[crash457]

The real question about the V6 2ndGEN is how do you make that little V6 make 600hp like the supercharged 6.2L mills do or more? The V6 2ndGEN is already pumping out 20% more HP than what a standard 3.5L EcoBoost puts out. How much more can really be in there before it's unreliable.

For the ones who just want to leave them stock it's probably the way to go. If you want to really build one up, the 6.2L is still the way to go.

The 2017 Ford GT makes 600+HP from the 3.5 HO ecoboost right off the showroom floor.

 

[grancuda]

The 2017 Ford GT makes 600+HP from the 3.5 HO ecoboost right off the showroom floor.

Those also make their peak power of 630hp @ 7300RPM. The GT is in a different league making those numbers & super car components in the motor are high $. I am sure some high dollar builds will take place using GT 3.5L components in a Raptor but the cost will outweigh the gains & the hp/Tq curve will need serious tweaking to work for a truck weighing 2x as much.

A 6.2L will get to 600+hp for much less money.

 

[DROPOUT]

The real question about the V6 2ndGEN is how do you make that little V6 make 600hp like the supercharged 6.2L mills do or more? The V6 2ndGEN is already pumping out 20% more HP than what a standard 3.5L EcoBoost puts out. How much more can really be in there before it's unreliable.
.

Wrong way to look at it ... The 3.5L HO EB only shares the same block as its non HO brother. Internal's are different, manifolds are different, and turbo's are different. They didn't just drop in a Non HO 3.5 and tune it to push 20% more power.

Not sure anyone will know what an HO 3.5L can do until people start putting down massive numbers. 600hp @ the crank seems pretty easily achievable on a block & heads already designed for FI. Anything past that would be anyone's guess.

 

[crash457]

Those also make their peak power of 630hp @ 7300RPM. The GT is in a different league making those numbers & super car components in the motor are high $. I am sure some high dollar builds will take place using GT 3.5L components in a Raptor but the cost will outweigh the gains & the hp/Tq curve will need serious tweaking to work for a truck weighing 2x as much.

A 6.2L will get to 600+hp for much less money.

There are Gen1 Ecoboosts that make 600+HP.


Video: Livernois Builds World's Highest HP EcoBoost Taurus SHO - EngineLabs

As far as the differences and similarities of the GT engine and the Raptor engine, I'm not sure how much architecture they share, but they share enough to confirm that it is possible to reach those numbers. As for cost, it remains to be seen, as there isn't much aftermarket support yet. Also there is the question of performance yields from 600HP in a Gen1 Raptor vs Gen2 Raptor. While the concept is the same, they are different in many ways. The loss of weight and a new drivetrain means that you could see more performance with less power. Time will tell. Until then, I can no more say that you can affordably build a 600HP Ecoboost than you can say you can't.

 

[grancuda]

Wrong way to look at it ... The 3.5L HO EB only shares the same block as its non HO brother. Internal's are different, manifolds are different, and turbo's are different. They didn't just drop in a Non HO 3.5 and tune it to push 20% more power.

Exactly, so to get 20% more they needed for the internal's to be different, manifolds to be different, turbo's to be different.

So 40% more power on top off all that I am sure you need all that & then some.

To me, like I said before, for the ones who just want to leave them stock the 2nd gen is probably the way to go. If you want to really build one up, the 6.2L is the way to go.

 

[DROPOUT]

Exactly, so to get 20% more they needed for the internal's to be different, manifolds to be different, turbo's to be different.

No, I don't think you get it. They didn't need to change internals to get 20% more. They could easily squeeze out 450 crank hp from the non HO EB engine. They upgraded the internal/turbo's to make it more reliable. The 450hp HO EB is now the STARTING point for this new engine.

I would much rather increase boost/add FI to an already "built" engine like the EB as opposed to going FI on a NA engine that was never built for FI in the first place.

That's not saying the 6.2L can't take it ~ Longevity is the key here, and we simply don't know what the longevity is of 3.5L HO cranking out 600 ponies will be. Getting to 600hp on the 3.5L HO EB can likely be done more reliably than the 6.2L NA V8

But ... It's anyone's guess at this point. Time will tell!