The death of car culture

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yoopercharged

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I disagree. Car culture isn't strictly defined by the internal combustion engine. There are so many other aspects of a vehicle that can be modified to give it character. I love my gas guzzling truck as much as the rest of you but I actually think EV tech is cool and has a lot of potential.

Please don't burn me at the stake.
 
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Macdaddy

Macdaddy

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I disagree. Car culture isn't strictly defined by the internal combustion engine. There are so many other aspects of a vehicle that can be modified to give it character. I love my gas guzzling truck as much as the rest of you but I actually think EV tech is cool and has a lot of potential.

Please don't burn me at the stake.
You won’t get burned at the stake, I hate “cancel culture”, everyone should be able to state their opinions. I don’t see the generation of my grandchildren (I’m 54) having a love of cars and trucks like mine or previous generations. Electric might be cool, but your not doing ur own work on it in your garage. Repairs will have to be specialty and automatic trips to the shop. Its outrageous to me that they have to add “engine sounds” to a silent EV. Thats like ball cards in the spokes of ur bicycle. My iphone is cool too but the new generation of kids can’t even talk to each other with verbal words. I know its probably not analogous, but at least the guys on here can appreciate cool ev tech but not lose touch with reality. We need engines not batteries for this country to function for work and fun! Just sayin…
 

Bozz

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I disagree. Car culture isn't strictly defined by the internal combustion engine. There are so many other aspects of a vehicle that can be modified to give it character. I love my gas guzzling truck as much as the rest of you but I actually think EV tech is cool and has a lot of potential.

Please don't burn me at the stake.
Hey, we need some more kindling wood over here!

I have been "interested" in EV for over 20 years, thus I have done MUCH research. As of right now, unless you live in a city and have tons of $, the cons still outweigh the pros by far. I could type PAGES on this subject, but I'll just throw out the short, short list. I don't want to have to be questioned about every point, or again, we will be back to the PAGES of response.

- Both Car-and-Driver and Road-and-Track had 6-10 page articles 3-4 months ago about driving an EV cross country from West Coast to East coast. Conclusion by both: NO BUENO!

- One of them just did another article about a 250 mile trip. SOOOOO many issues on this trip, the writer was amazed how difficult it was (FUNNY!) Conclusion again: NO BUENO!

Several issues/concerns about EV's overall:

- Toxic rare materials in batteries
- Expensive battery materials
- US just made it impossible to mine these materials domestically, making China/Russia the main sources
- Disposal of said batteries is highly toxic and requires $ fee to get rid of your EV
- Battery performance declines quickly from the day EV is purchased
- Potential buyers are bribed with "rebates" (taxpayer funded subsidies - paid by your neighbors)
- There is a MAJOR lack of charging stations nationwide (that alone will not solve all of the charging issues)
- Incompatibility of charging stations
- Often out-of-order charging stations
- Slow charging stations (often do not charge at a higher rate, but are limited for many reasons)
- Charging stations are many (most?) times out of the way of intended route and often REQUIRE OVERNIGHT STAY during charging
- Charging stations are fueled by coal, nuclear, diesel, etc., SO, NOT SO "GREEN"
- One article even had photos of an EV charging station that was attached to a big diesel generator - which ended up using $70 in diesel fuel during the charge cycle ----- LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
- Many (most?) EV's have a shockingly short range so as to be unusable by the average person unless driving a very short distance from home
- Almost 90% of EV owners DO NOT have at-home charging stations and thereby require use of public charging stations which can often be difficult to find, have few stations, have limited time restrictions, etc.
- At-home EV charging stations are very expensive to install and usually require electrical upgrades to a home. Everyone CAN'T have their own EV charging station in an apartment building.
- If everyone had an EV tomorrow, there would be a MASSIVE shortage of charging stations. There ALREADY is now.
- EV cars cost an average of $60,000 to $80,000. There are a few cheaper ones, but range is SEVERELY limited.
- Everyone can't afford a Tesla.
- If you live in FL, TX, AZ, etc, running A/C in the car severely depletes the battery, thus the range (obviously, but it's amazing how many people don't understand this)
- AAA will bring gas or tow a broken down combustion engine vehicle. There is no service to bring electricity to a stalled EV, as one auto magazine writer recently found out. Most auto service companies will NOT tow an EV.
- Batteries are EXPENSIVE to replace, not to mention the disposal fee for the old ones.

I can probably go on some more, but getting tired. Typing all of this off the top of my head, this is no copy and paste job. I'm sure I'll remember a few other points as soon as I post this.

Bottom line, EV's are NOT there for the masses to completely eliminate combustion engines, probably not for 30-50 more years.

Ford had an EV back in 1902. Yup, 120 years ago! A technological marvel. Yes, it could beat most other vehicles off the starting line, but troubled with many of the same issues as today's EV's.
 

goblues38

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We are witnessing the death of “car culture”. This next generation will never drive down main street or take over a parking lot with their hoods up to show what they drive, no more revving the engine, no more 4 wheeling etc.

Going to give you a big Thumbs down on that. Look at CUBA. You have not been able to buy a new American car in 70 years, and car culture is very strong.

Enthusiast will find a way.

cuba-cars-6-1600.jpg
 

Bozz

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Oops! I knew it. Left out a couple of points -

- Petroleum is not made from decaying dinosaurs, but is continuously being made beneath the surface of the earth. There is more than enough for thousands of years.
- Petroleum is the most cost-effective energy for vehicles
- With the advances in technology combustion engine cars are now very clean. Coal generated power is also 99% clean. Natural gas is 100% clean. Nuclear and hydroelectric are clean. There is no rush needed to get to EV's.
- Solar is improbable for running or charging an EV
 

yoopercharged

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Hey, we need some more kindling wood over here!

I have been "interested" in EV for over 20 years, thus I have done MUCH research. As of right now, unless you live in a city and have tons of $, the cons still outweigh the pros by far. I could type PAGES on this subject, but I'll just throw out the short, short list. I don't want to have to be questioned about every point, or again, we will be back to the PAGES of response.

- Both Car-and-Driver and Road-and-Track had 6-10 page articles 3-4 months ago about driving an EV cross country from West Coast to East coast. Conclusion by both: NO BUENO!

- One of them just did another article about a 250 mile trip. SOOOOO many issues on this trip, the writer was amazed how difficult it was (FUNNY!) Conclusion again: NO BUENO!

Several issues/concerns about EV's overall:

- Toxic rare materials in batteries
- Expensive battery materials
- US just made it impossible to mine these materials domestically, making China/Russia the main sources
- Disposal of said batteries is highly toxic and requires $ fee to get rid of your EV
- Battery performance declines quickly from the day EV is purchased
- Potential buyers are bribed with "rebates" (taxpayer funded subsidies - paid by your neighbors)
- There is a MAJOR lack of charging stations nationwide (that alone will not solve all of the charging issues)
- Incompatibility of charging stations
- Often out-of-order charging stations
- Slow charging stations (often do not charge at a higher rate, but are limited for many reasons)
- Charging stations are many (most?) times out of the way of intended route and often REQUIRE OVERNIGHT STAY during charging
- Charging stations are fueled by coal, nuclear, diesel, etc., SO, NOT SO "GREEN"
- One article even had photos of an EV charging station that was attached to a big diesel generator - which ended up using $70 in diesel fuel during the charge cycle ----- LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
- Many (most?) EV's have a shockingly short range so as to be unusable by the average person unless driving a very short distance from home
- Almost 90% of EV owners DO NOT have at-home charging stations and thereby require use of public charging stations which can often be difficult to find, have few stations, have limited time restrictions, etc.
- At-home EV charging stations are very expensive to install and usually require electrical upgrades to a home. Everyone CAN'T have their own EV charging station in an apartment building.
- If everyone had an EV tomorrow, there would be a MASSIVE shortage of charging stations. There ALREADY is now.
- EV cars cost an average of $60,000 to $80,000. There are a few cheaper ones, but range is SEVERELY limited.
- Everyone can't afford a Tesla.
- If you live in FL, TX, AZ, etc, running A/C in the car severely depletes the battery, thus the range (obviously, but it's amazing how many people don't understand this)
- AAA will bring gas or tow a broken down combustion engine vehicle. There is no service to bring electricity to a stalled EV, as one auto magazine writer recently found out. Most auto service companies will NOT tow an EV.
- Batteries are EXPENSIVE to replace, not to mention the disposal fee for the old ones.

I can probably go on some more, but getting tired. Typing all of this off the top of my head, this is no copy and paste job. I'm sure I'll remember a few other points as soon as I post this.

Bottom line, EV's are NOT there for the masses to completely eliminate combustion engines, probably not for 30-50 more years.

Ford had an EV back in 1902. Yup, 120 years ago! A technological marvel. Yes, it could beat most other vehicles off the starting line, but troubled with many of the same issues as today's EV's.
I can tell you're passionate about this subject and I agree with a lot of what you said but...

I wasn't arguing for or against the large-scale viability of EVs. I just think the tech is cool.
 

Bozz

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I can tell you're passionate about this subject and I agree with a lot of what you said but...

I wasn't arguing for or against the large-scale viability of EVs. I just think the tech is cool.
Same. I understand. I also think the tech is cool, just not 100% ready for them to shove down our throats.
 

melvimbe

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I would say that EVs don't lend themselves well to 'car culture'. I can't say I'm that into car culture, but two of the biggest aspects of car culture is older vehicles that are restored and still running well today, and modifying stock vehicles to improve their performance. EVs will make horrible vehicles when there older, likely with dead batteries that can't be replaced for reasonable price if at all. You'd have to do some electrical modifications to make it work...which doesn't sound that cool.

As far as modifications go, you can't upgrade the exhaust, intake, supercharge, turbo, etc or other things to make an EV perform better. Less moving parts is...less. So anything you do is pretty much cosmetic, except for wheels/tires/suspension. Until an aftermarket can find a way to do something.

So I'd say culture will live on for ICE vehicles for a long time, but will be difficult for EVs to join car culture.
 

GordoJay

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...what do you think when you‘ve actually seen one on the road? Was it like my thought “that (lightning) is ugly as sin!”. I would never buy that ev f150, it looks like a little toy, and nothing like a real F-150...
I haven't seen one, or noticed if I did. Isn't it the same size, using the same sheet metal as an F150?
 
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