Serious questions for those who are convinced that an Ecoboost replacement is coming

[Aaron]

1. What will the replacement motor be? 5.2L V8 Voodoo
2. On what model year Raptor will the replacement be available? 2019
3. What source(s) have you convinced of this? If you have inside info, there's no need to drop names, but "I have a friend who works for <Ford Performance>" will suffice.
4. IF you are wrong about the replacement motor, will you admit on FRF that you were wrong, and shut up about it? Of course I will

There you go!

 

[Toadster]

The 2018 Raptor has a secret code when you order it - only 18 will be build, just like only 17 in 2017...

the code is

gotcha

 

[BurnOut]

There you go!

Right on... thanks for your input!

 

[smurfslayer]

My source is the guy who lead our Raptor Assault class. He raced the Raptor in the Baja for Ford and has a company that sells performance parts for the Raptor.

When asked if something bigger was coming, he said it was highly unlikely because the Gen2 is rear end limited. He said the current diff, diff locker, and u-joints are maxed out by the current motor and it will take a rear end redesign to accommodate something more powerful. Most likely that rules out anything in 2018 and probably even this generation.

This discussion was had in my (April) R/A and that’s different from what our discussion covered. The way it was explained in the mid April R/A was that there was only an incremental rear upgrade in the Gen2, 31 from 30 splines, and that the previous gen - Roush / supercharged trucks were, under some extreme circumstances, failing the e-locker, and diff at a higher than normal rate. That’s a far cry from “maxed out”.

There’s a fuse in every powertrain, a component that will typically fail first; or the weak link in the chain, if you will. That’s a big ass drive shaft, but there’s plenty of powertrain joints along the way that don’t take too kindly to “shock” loads and wear faster, sometimes breaking earlier. I think some of the s/c Gen1 trucks are pushing 700 crank hp. if we’re seeing those trucks destroying rear ends, or u joints at a higher than expected rate maybe there’s something here, but if it’s just a few owners who are a little too enthusiastic about burn outs well... you know.

That doesn't prevent Ford from stuffing the old 6.2L in there to appease the knuckle-draggers. But I cannot imagine a heavier, slower, less powerful, and less efficient V8 selling very well.

There was also a rumor on here a few weeks ago about the Raptor dropping the leaf springs and going to an independent rear suspension. If that's true, that could be part of a looming engine upgrade. But I suspect such a big upgrade would wait for the Gen3.

Name calling and insulting the previous gen Rap owners is just as bad form as it is for their contingent of 2nd gen Raptor (owner) haters doing it to the new owners. If we want a better FRF, we need to be a little more cognizant of how we interact or every thread here will devolve into a $hit show.

Just sayin’.

 

[Toadster]

are people buying Raptors for the engine? or the overall package?

I think Ford has a killer product here... they can't make enough of them - unless they're going to make a substantial amount of $$$ the design won't change much - maybe evolve, but I wouldn't expect a holistic mod

 

[Aaron]

There was also a rumor on here a few weeks ago about the Raptor dropping the leaf springs and going to an independent rear suspension. If that's true, that could be part of a looming engine upgrade. But I suspect such a big upgrade would wait for the Gen3.

I edited your post down, but that is going to be part of the 5.2L V8 upgrade they'll be doing. As @smurfslayer mentioned, the current running gear can't handle the 526hp and 429lb-ft of torque that that motor generates.

 

[jaz13]

This discussion was had in my (April) R/A and that’s different from what our discussion covered. The way it was explained in the mid April R/A was that there was only an incremental rear upgrade in the Gen2, 31 from 30 splines, and that the previous gen - Roush / supercharged trucks were, under some extreme circumstances, failing the e-locker, and diff at a higher than normal rate. That’s a far cry from “maxed out”.

There’s a fuse in every powertrain, a component that will typically fail first; or the weak link in the chain, if you will. That’s a big ass drive shaft, but there’s plenty of powertrain joints along the way that don’t take too kindly to “shock” loads and wear faster, sometimes breaking earlier. I think some of the s/c Gen1 trucks are pushing 700 crank hp. if we’re seeing those trucks destroying rear ends, or u joints at a higher than expected rate maybe there’s something here, but if it’s just a few owners who are a little too enthusiastic about burn outs well... you know.



Name calling and insulting the previous gen Rap owners is just as bad form as it is for their contingent of 2nd gen Raptor (owner) haters doing it to the new owners. If we want a better FRF, we need to be a little more cognizant of how we interact or every thread here will devolve into a $hit show.

Just sayin’.

I'm only relaying what the Raptor Assault guy told our class. He said the Raptor was "rear end limited and we won't see anything bigger unless the rear end is redesigned". If you want to argue about it, take it up with him.

As for guys pulling big HP numbers in the G1, I don't doubt it. I've seen Honda Civics with 1,000 HP. But like most tuner cars, they typically have a shorter lifespan between the higher drivetrain strain and more aggressive owners. I'd never buy a second hand vehicle that's been tuned because you are asking for trouble.


As for Ford adding an additional spline to the G2, the V6TT has more power and torque than the 6.2L and the additional strength was needed.

The other thing to keep in mind is Ford is designing for a 250k mile plus lifespan. Formula 1 cars get 800hp out of 1.5L V6, but they also fail in a spectacular way if driven for more than a few dozen hours. An 800 HP Raptor will be fine today and tomorrow, but next year is less certain and ten years from now is out of the question. When Ford says it is rear end limited, longevity is most often the limiting factor. Metal fatigue is an interesting subject if you want learn more about machine design.

 

[WhatExit?]

Okay, for those who are honestly convinced that an Ecoboost replacement motor is coming for the Raptor:

1. What will the replacement motor be?
2. On what model year Raptor will the replacement be available?
3. What source(s) have you convinced of this? If you have inside info, there's no need to drop names, but "I have a friend who works for <insert Ford group name here>" will suffice.
4. IF you are wrong about the replacement motor, will you admit on FRF that you were wrong, and shut up about it?

From my perspective, regarding the last question, if the replacement motor shows up in this generation of the Raptor as you predict, I am willing to add the following text to my sig line here on FRF, to immortalize your soothsaying:

"I was a fool for buying an Ecoboost Raptor. If only I had listened to <insert your user name here>, I'd have more horsepower, more torque, and most importantly, a better exhaust sound."

You're making the haterz happy with this ridiculous thread

 

[crash457]

I don't see the V8 making a return in the Raptor. Ford has invested a lot into pushing the EB V6 in the F150. A Raptor with a EB V6 creates hype to justify the cost of getting an EB V6 in a standard F150. "If it's good enough for the Raptor, It's good enough for my Lariat." Dropping the EB V6 from the Raptor would kill the sales of the EB V6 in all F150s. Putting the EB V6 in the GT only helps increase the hype. Going back to a V8 would be like saying the EB V6 isn't worth getting in your standard F150. The Raptor and GT are flagship vehicles. Ford want's to sell the world on the EB V6 being their flagship motor. True or not, that is their stance.

That said, I would consider a V8 if they offered one.

Would I say I made a mistake getting my EB Raptor? No. I have a Raptor now and am enjoying it. There is no V8 option and if the unlikely day comes that they do offer one, it is still a few years away. Let's just say that the 2020 Raptor comes out with a V8 and I trade mine in. I still enjoyed mine for 3 years while other just sat and waited. And if the day never comes that they offer a V8, what do you have? (This doesn't apply to those with a Gen1, as they have a Raptor and have been enjoying it far longer than I have.)

The Mustang folks spent years debating over whether IRS was coming. It finally did, but if they waited for it, they could have spent 10+ years not enjoying the Mustangs that were currently available.

My advice is if you want one now, buy it. If something better comes along, trade it. That isn't a mistake. It's called progression.

 

[BurnOut]

I edited your post down, but that is going to be part of the 5.2L V8 upgrade they'll be doing. As @smurfslayer mentioned, the current running gear can't handle the 526hp and 429lb-ft of torque that that motor generates.

This is interesting, because I'd think that it would be torque that would tear up those bits rather than horsepower (horsepower being nothing more or less than torque at RPM). To illustrate, I offer a thought exercise- which do you think would live longer, a transmission out of a diesel F350 behind a 1000 hp turbo'd 4-banger Honda, or the Honda transmission behind a stock 440 hp Powerstroke?

Additionally, I'd think that the 76 horsepower offered by the Voodoo over the existing EB 3.5L would be more easily achieved with another few pounds of boost rather than a whole 'nother motor.

That said, I've been wrong before... but it'll sure be interesting to see.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 AM ----------

You're making the haterz happy with this ridiculous thread

The goal isn't to make anyone happy, but to give folks an opportunity to put their money (well, their FRF reputation, anyhow) where their mouth is.