Raptor broke down again!

[Johnkn]

Wimbledon white with blue stripes. Original Paxton supercharger.

 

[ME120]

Wimbledon white with blue stripes. Original Paxton supercharger.

Impressive. Such a great mustang ! Do you have a 2015-2020 Shelby ?

 

[TurboTJ]

Because liability. Down the road (ie out of warranty) people would just say **** it and keep driving it if it works. Then someone rolls one and dies- family sues Ford because the stability control was disabled, but the vehicle still allowed speeds that could kill them. "They said possible punitive damages of how much? Nah, just limp mode it and they can tow it."

I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe there is any liability here. Leaving one stranded on the side of the road or idling in limp mode at 10MPH comes with more liability.

It really concerns me to read about these issues with brand new $70,000 Raptors. I would be livid if I had to deal with this crap like you guys are. My walnut sized brain tells me that If I pay that kind of money for a truck it better not be doing that stuff. I have had mine for 4 months now with over 7,000 hard miles on it. I have literally beaten the crap out of it. The paint is ruined, I drive it everyday for work in all conditions and road types and I do not baby it. But I have not had a single thing go wrong with it. Yet. I feel bad for you guys and if I had to drive a loaner around instead of my 70K truck while they try to figure out computer issues it will put me on the edge. It really disappoints me in Ford and I have been a Ford guy my whole life. Had nothing but Ford trucks, Excursions, Broncos, Edges, and Mustangs my whole life. I hope you can get these issues resolved and get back in you rig!!

That’s pretty much how I’m feeling.. And this is not the first issue. The computers have freaked out and left me stranded twice when the car would not start.

can anyone confirm a PCM update is even available? It’s sounding more and more like all they did was a reset.

Thanks for all the feedback (almost) everyone!

Your preference is retarded.

It's an automatic transmission. If you don't know what gear you're supposed to be in, leave it in Drive and let it do the thinking you're not wanting to do.

Thank you for your well articulated and constructive feed back. I wish I could watch YouTube videos and become an expert. Who needs engineering school anyways??

However, the video is good and this guy doesn’t even touch on some of the more harmful aspects of low RPM bogging of engines. However, you can feel when an engine is bogged and this was not the situation I was in. Data logging has shown zero pre ignition or engine knock and 10PSI of boost at over 2k rpms should be fine. As engineers, we design for this.

I checked the dash cam and it looks like I accelerated from 78 to 85 over a decent amount of time before things go south. I highly doubt this causes a bogging situation. It’s simply a case where the tranny would have likely downshifted to 9.

For the sake of argument, let’s say that an issue exist on the Ecoboost with LSPI. I would expect Ford to correct this (and maybe they did) with a change of oil type, a reduction of boost at that specific RPM band, enriched fuel conditions, decreased throttle opening angle and maybe decreased timing. Problem solved! There are lots of knobs to turn besides failing.

Oorrrr you can just say, at 10PSI of boost at >2k RPM’s, Fords are allowed to break down. That’s cool too.

 

[jabroni619]

I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe there is any liability here. Leaving one stranded on the side of the road or idling in limp mode at 10MPH comes with more liability.



That’s pretty much how I’m feeling.. And this is not the first issue. The computers have freaked out and left me stranded twice when the car would not start.

can anyone confirm a PCM update is even available? It’s sounding more and more like all they did was a reset.

Thanks for all the feedback (almost) everyone!



Thank you for your well articulated and constructive feed back. I wish I could watch YouTube videos and become an expert. Who needs engineering school anyways??

However, the video is good and this guy doesn’t even touch on some of the more harmful aspects of low RPM bogging of engines. However, you can feel when an engine is bogged and this was not the situation I was in. Data logging has shown zero pre ignition or engine knock and 10PSI of boost at over 2k rpms should be fine. As engineers, we design for this.

I checked the dash cam and it looks like I accelerated from 78 to 85 over a decent amount of time before things go south. I highly doubt this causes a bogging situation. It’s simply a case where the tranny would have likely downshifted to 9.

For the sake of argument, let’s say that an issue exist on the Ecoboost with LSPI. I would expect Ford to correct this (and maybe they did) with a change of oil type, a reduction of boost at that specific RPM band, enriched fuel conditions, decreased throttle opening angle and maybe decreased timing. Problem solved! There are lots of knobs to turn besides failing.

Oorrrr you can just say, at 10PSI of boost at >2k RPM’s, Fords are allowed to break down. That’s cool too.

I don't think Ford is accounting for people who have no idea how to drive. Like hard acceleration in M10. No articulation beyond retarded is necessary, because that's exactly what it is. There's a reason why you were asked why, and you didn't really have an answer. Because it's dumb, and you can't justify dumb.

 

[BigDawg]

I don't think Ford is accounting for people who have no idea how to drive. Like hard acceleration in M10. No articulation beyond retarded is necessary, because that's exactly what it is. There's a reason why you were asked why, and you didn't really have an answer. Because it's dumb, and you can't justify dumb.

And then the internet tough guys chime in...

 

[TurboTJ]

I don't think Ford is accounting for people who have no idea how to drive. Like hard acceleration in M10. No articulation beyond retarded is necessary, because that's exactly what it is. There's a reason why you were asked why, and you didn't really have an answer. Because it's dumb, and you can't justify dumb.

Let’s say you’re right and I’m dumb. How much throttle is it ok to apply at 78MPH in M10? What RPMs would I be at? Would you expect the powertrain to fail? Would you expect to register knock?

I hear what you’re getting at and I’m certainly open to it but the facts don’t support your theory.

 

[jabroni619]

And then the internet tough guys chime in...

Your idea of tough is a strange one

Let’s say you’re right and I’m dumb. How much throttle is it ok to apply at 78MPH in M10? What RPMs would I be at? Would you expect the powertrain to fail? Would you expect to register knock?

I hear what you’re getting at and I’m certainly open to it but the facts don’t support your theory.

If I was in manual and wanted hard acceleration I would drop to the lowest gear I could and row through them until I got to my desired speed. Or I'd leave it in Drive put it in sport and let the vehicle do the work for me. I don't know when anything will fail because I don't know the tolerances, but I do know 10th gear isn't intended for hard acceleration. That's enough for most people to not do it. I'm fairly certain that no engineer at Ford or GM (who also uses this transmission) would say that 10th gear is designed for hard acceleration.

 

[TurboTJ]

Your idea of tough is a strange one



If I was in manual and wanted hard acceleration I would drop to the lowest gear I could and row through them until I got to my desired speed. Or I'd leave it in Drive put it in sport and let the vehicle do the work for me. I don't know when anything will fail because I don't know the tolerances, but I do know 10th gear isn't intended for hard acceleration. That's enough for most people to not do it. I'm fairly certain that no engineer at Ford or GM (who also uses this transmission) would say that 10th gear is designed for hard acceleration.

Maybe “hard” is the wrong word. I am saying that I am accelerating hard enough that the tranny would normally downshift to 9th had it not been in manual. I prefer to accelerate slower and avoid the downshift which is next to impossible in manual mode. I would guess I was about at 25% throttle and 10PSI boost. RPM’s are likely near 2400RPMs.


Just a thought - maybe I can post the dash cam video and we can all decide for ourselves whether or not the engine was bogged and avoid all this conjecture.

 

[BigDawg]

Your idea of tough is a strange one

That would be folks saying things online that they’d never say to the persons face You’d get your 12 year old ass beat where I come from Why don’t we up the minimum age for this site.

 

[Droid]

Apparently you did. Maybe the issue isn’t unique to the Raptor?
https://www.troublecodes.net/pcodes/p0068/

P0068 means that the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) has detected an excessive degree of variation in the input voltage signal from the throttle position sensor (TPS) as compared with voltage input signals from the mass air flow (MAF) sensor and the manifold air pressure (MAP) sensor. The PCM reads and calculates these individual engine drivability sensor signals and then compares them to help develop fuel delivery and ignition timing strategy. The PCM also utilizes this information to ensure that the fuel-to-air ratio remains constant, controllable, and within acceptable limitations. If the detected voltage values of these three sensors (triangulated) fail to coincide with programmed desired parameters, over a specific period of time or engine revolutions, a diagnostic trouble code will be stored and a malfunction indicator lamp will likely be illuminated.

Not a mechanic or automotive engineer...but that kind of seems like a reasonable scenario for limp home mode. And I'm very much of the opinion that limp home mode should only be used in a worst-case scenario where no alternative is available. But that's a bunch of primary engine and user-input sensors giving nonsense data.

Still need to put together a very basic toolkit for the truck, but am going to make sure I have a good code scanner in it, along with a 10mm of course.

This failure really stinks of something either loose/disconnected/wet/squirreled or a very broken PCM. My dumb layman opinion anyway.