Raptor Assault Turbo Adapter

[xrocket21]

I reached out to my contacts in ford that actually do work on the Turbos for this program and exhaust to see there thoughts on the HP claims. I will let everyone know what they say.

Listen, a turbo makes power by spinning the turbine. Any thing after that exhaust turbine is a limit to flow, and therefore a limit to the turbo spinning.

On an N/A engine, there is exhaust scavenging and whatnot where it makes a difference in what is there right after the exhaust ports. On a turbo, the most efficient setup is nothing after that turbine, which is different from an NA engine.

Also, you are dealing with not only gas flow, but gas expansion.

While there are possibly bottlenecks downstream in the raptor exhaust, I can say with confidence that there is no way 25% more area at the turbo outlet can decrease power or torque, at any rpm, based on how a turbo functions, not on opinion.

 

[byz250f]

Listen, a turbo makes power by spinning the turbine. Any thing after that exhaust turbine is a limit to flow, and therefore a limit to the turbo spinning.

On an N/A engine, there is exhaust scavenging and whatnot where it makes a difference in what is there right after the exhaust ports. On a turbo, the most efficient setup is nothing after that turbine, which is different from an NA engine.

Also, you are dealing with not only gas flow, but gas expansion.

While there are possibly bottlenecks downstream in the raptor exhaust, I can say with confidence that there is no way 25% more area at the turbo outlet can decrease power or torque, at any rpm, based on how a turbo functions, not on opinion.

I will be curious to see what Ford comes back and says. If they say there are no gains or it is there so it doesnt overspool the turbo it will be interesting. I know they can save some money commonizing the flange between motors, but if it can gain 20hp and 20tq they would do it if the powertrain can pass the durability testing with the increased performance due to the flange ID increase.

 

[Guy]

Once again, I am talking about turbos. You are talking about things like exhaust scavenging which does indeed apply to N/A vehicles, and even turbo vehicles, but PRE TURBO.

You guys are applying N/A theories to a turbo truck and it doesnt work that way.

---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 AM ----------



well put

I'm not much of a turbo guy so I won't dispute any fundamental truths in that regard.

I hear what you're preaching and I want to buy in... but I'm not so sure without proof of concept.

I'm going to make up variables to illustrate my point.

Let's say the engine produces a flow and a pressure coming out of the combustion chamber.

Let's say that flow is based on a resistance with (X) number of resistance at the turbo outlet as well as the rest of the exhaust system... for a given change in Pressure with a fixed resistance you'll generate a rate of flow.

Flow = change in pressure over resistance.

If you decrease the resistance you will decrease the flow rate but potentially move an equal volume of air or even a greater volume...

What spools the turbo? The exhaust flowing through the turbine right? If the exhaust flows through with less velocity because you decreased the resistance... isn't the turbo going to spin slower?

Someone who has had college level physics in the last 20 years, probably could explain this better.

 

[xrocket21]

 

[crash457]

Backpressure does not create exhaust scavenging (on a turbo or NA engine). Exhaust pulses create scavenging. Backpressure is used to capitalize on this to tune the pulses for optimal scavenging. When you change the flow characteristics of the exhaust, you change the way the exhaust gasses are pulsed and in turn changing the exhaust scavenging properties. The most effects on pulse timing happen pre collector. After the exhaust is combined in the collector the pulses no longer play a factor in the scavenging effects and as such have very little effect on flow characteristics.

Since a turbo is post collector, the increase in flow would only have a marginal effect in exhaust scavenging. increasing the size of the exhaust port would net very little gain as the turbo rotational speed is controlled by the exhaust gasses entering it. It does not get all exhaust gasses forced through it like a muffler or catalytic convertor. The waste gate regulates the flow characteristics of the turbo not backpressure.

 

[Guy]

Backpressure does not create exhaust scavenging (on a turbo or NA engine). Exhaust pulses create scavenging. Backpressure is used to capitalize on this to tune the pulses for optimal scavenging. When you change the flow characteristics of the exhaust, you change the way the exhaust gasses are pulsed and in turn changing the exhaust scavenging properties. The most effects on pulse timing happen pre collector. After the exhaust is combined in the collector the pulses no longer play a factor in the scavenging effects and as such have very little effect on flow characteristics.

Since a turbo is post collector, the increase in flow would only have a marginal effect in exhaust scavenging. increasing the size of the exhaust port would net very little gain as the turbo rotational speed is controlled by the exhaust gasses entering it. It does not get all exhaust gasses forced through it like a muffler or catalytic convertor. The waste gate regulates the flow characteristics of the turbo not backpressure.

Please...

Tell me more.

Is this adapter bunk?

 

[nikhsub1]

A turbo is essentially a centrifugal pump. The worst thing you can do to a centrifugal pump is restrict the INLET. That being said, it is always most beneficial to have as little restriction on the outlet as possible. An open exhaust side turbo would yield the best results, as in nothing bolted to the end of the turbo.

With that said, I doubt opening up the exhaust side of the turbo with these new adapters will have much effect with the stock exhaust system in place. With a high flow cat (or no cat) and a free flowing cat back, the adapters would be more beneficial.

In short, I'd not bother with these unless upgrading the downpipes.

 

[crash457]

Please...

Tell me more.

Is this adapter bunk?

I'm not sure I'd call it bunk, but performance gains would be minimal. If all other restrictions had been addressed, it may be more beneficial.
Engines are air pumps and can only move air as efficiently as the least efficient portion. Same reason aftermarket exhaust doesn't net any real gains on these trucks. You need to combine it with bigger downpipes and high flow cats and a tune that will change the waste gate actuator settings.

If you are planning on upgrading everything from the intake to the tailpipes then it can't hurt to put it on now, but I wouldn't expect any real change in performance. Personally it isn't worth the time an money for me. I'd rather spend my money on things that will actually improve the truck, like a set of Deavers and some 37s.

 

[byz250f]

I'm not sure I'd call it bunk, but performance gains would be minimal. If all other restrictions had been addressed, it may be more beneficial.
Engines are air pumps and can only move air as efficiently as the least efficient portion. Same reason aftermarket exhaust doesn't net any real gains on these trucks. You need to combine it with bigger downpipes and high flow cats and a tune that will change the waste gate actuator settings.

If you are planning on upgrading everything from the intake to the tailpipes then it can't hurt to put it on now, but I wouldn't expect any real change in performance. Personally it isn't worth the time an money for me. I'd rather spend my money on things that will actually improve the truck, like a set of Deavers and some 37s.

I'm with you. I trust Fords engineering on Turbo design more then anyone on here. If it made a 20hp difference and the power train will pass the validation testing they would make this change from the factory IF the cost wasn't to high they would make this change.

BUT there a lot of people on here that sell these parts, manufacture them, or already paid for them...or they know more then Ford on powertrain development. All of these people will tell you the turbo adapters are worth it. Until I get information from Ford on this I will not believe this is legit.

 

[gunnersguru]

so with the spd adaptors do you NEED new bolts and gaskets ? or reuse the old ( like new )