Prospective Buyer - need some advice

[FordTechOne]

Not sure how to make it any clearer my point is there is an updated hardware that’s been out since 11/2019 that hasn’t been an issue. Why would you want the one that had known issues that had to be fixed with software. Do they not reverse the programing back to the original duty cycles when the updated phasers are installed? I know there are still instances where the customer had the recal done before 2/22 and still have had the old phaser style fail. Does ford want you to replace those with the old style phasers in that instance? There is a reason borg Warner fixed the design. Kinda seems silly you wouldn’t agree the new style phasers would be better being a ford tech and saying you haven’t seen them fail. And for everyone saying it’s a small sample size, sure but it still doesn’t negate the fact there is a better part in the later builds. So I will stick with my recommendation to the op.

No, they do NOT revert the programming back when the updated phasers are installed. As mentioned, the software was the root cause of the failure. When the new phasers went into production in 11/2019, so did the new calibration. Meaning all builds with the new phaser part number already had the new software released in 21B10.

Of course there were going to be some vehicles that experience the failure after 21B10, it doesn’t reverse wear that may have already occurred in some vehicles. Hence the reason for 21N03, which extended the warranty on the phasers.

 

[duff49]

No, they do NOT revert the programming back when the updated phasers are installed. As mentioned, the software was the root cause of the failure. When the new phasers went into production in 11/2019, so did the new calibration. Meaning all builds with the new phaser part number already had the new software released in 21B10.

Of course there were going to be some vehicles that experience the failure after 21B10, it doesn’t reverse wear that may have already occurred in some vehicles. Hence the reason for 21N03, which extended the warranty on the phasers.

There is no mention of reprogramming for 21b10 when replacing the phasers. Just curious why it would be hard for you to say on here that the new design phaser is a better choice. Would you replace your phasers with the old style? Did your truck have 21b10 from the beginning? How do you know there is no wear up until you decided to do the reprogramming, for some as late as 2/22.

 

[FordTechOne]

There is no mention of reprogramming for 21b10 when replacing the phasers. Just curious why it would be hard for you to say on here that the new design phaser is a better choice. Would you replace your phasers with the old style? Did your truck have 21b10 from the beginning? How do you know there is no wear up until you decided to do the reprogramming, for some as late as 2/22.

It’s literally a recall. That means it should be completed regardless of whether the phasers are replaced. If the phasers are replaced the software is not reverted as you inferred earlier. Trucks built before 11/2019 receive the same calibration as truck’s built on or after 11/2019 via 21B10.

The previous phaser part numbers are no longer available, and I have no idea why that’s even a question. When ever a repair is necessary, of course you’re going to want the latest part release.

In my case I know the phaser locking mechanism isn’t worn out because the phasers do not exhibit a rattle on cold start. I had 21B10 completed well before tbe 02/22 deadline.

 

[duff49]

It’s literally a recall. That means it should be completed regardless of whether the phasers are replaced. If the phasers are replaced the software is not reverted as you inferred earlier. Trucks built before 11/2019 receive the same calibration as truck’s built on or after 11/2019 via 21B10.

The previous phaser part numbers are no longer available, and I have no idea why that’s even a question. When ever a repair is necessary, of course you’re going to want the latest part release.

In my case I know the phaser locking mechanism isn’t worn out because the phasers do not exhibit a rattle on cold start. I had 21B10 completed well before tbe 02/22 deadline.

In your case…you just said previously that the example could have had wear before the recall, doesn’t mean it was making sound either. That cavity could have worn prior but not enough to make the noise and allow pin to still lock. In your case it could have as well, only way to really know is to pull them and check the cavity. The op and everyone else can take this conversation for what it’s worth, there is no way possible to tell if you had any wear prior to the recall, that could ultimately still gear it’s ugly sound eventually and for ford hopefully after there customer satisfaction extended warranty expires. Still a bandaid in my opinion. I do appreciate you verifying you have seen no failure on the new style phasers.

 

[FordTechOne]

In your case…you just said previously that the example could have had wear before the recall, doesn’t mean it was making sound either. That cavity could have worn prior but not enough to make the noise and allow pin to still lock. In your case it could have as well, only way to really know is to pull them and check the cavity. The op and everyone else can take this conversation for what it’s worth, there is no way possible to tell if you had any wear prior to the recall, that could ultimately still gear it’s ugly sound eventually and for ford hopefully after there customer satisfaction extended warranty expires. Still a bandaid in my opinion. I do appreciate you verifying you have seen no failure on the new style phasers.

If they’re worn they will make noise. The noise gets worse depending on the wear level. When you pull off a noisy phaser and take it apart you can see the wear on the locking mechanism. In my case they are completely quiet on a cold start.

You’re trying to make this much more complicated than it is. There is no “band aid” when root cause is determined and addressed.

Phaser noise > 21B10 > TSB/21N03 to replace worn phasers

No noise > 21B10 > failure prevented

 

[duff49]

Geeze that about the most simplistic answer for a tech ever. Either ford has verse trained you well or your actually telling us there is no wear to the cavity without noise. Sorry that’s not how it works the cavity could be worn and still allow for locking which would be noiseless. You hold a lot of pride in that recall I’ll give you that.

 

[FordTechOne]

Geeze that about the most simplistic answer for a tech ever. Either ford has verse trained you well or your actually telling us there is no wear to the cavity without noise. Sorry that’s not how it works the cavity could be worn and still slow for locking which would be noiseless. You hold a lot of pride in that recall I’ll give you that.

You didn’t even understand the recall or the root cause, but somehow you’re now an expert on the issue? Sorry, but you don’t have the slightest clue what you’re even talking about. I’m trying to break it down for people to understand, you’re trying to add confusion and speculation.

Everything you’ve posted has been speculation or just plain wrong. You claimed the new calibration changed oil pressure and was causing shudder and misfires. That was that wrong. You inferred that they reinstall the old software when new phasers are installed. That was wrong. You continue to claim phasers are wearing out without making noise, which is entirely speculation with no data to support it.

Now you’re claiming the cavity could be worn and “slow for locking which would be noiseless”? That makes no sense. If the cavity is elongated, the phaser will not be slower to lock. That has nothing to do with it. The phaser will bleed down at the same rate on a cold soak and return to the parked position. On the next cold start, the phaser will rattle as the locking pin moves within that cavity before oil pressure builds.

You’re clearly just looking to stir the pot here, which is not helpful to anyone.

 

[duff49]

You didn’t even understand the recall or the root cause, but somehow you’re now an expert on the issue? Sorry, but you don’t have the slightest clue what you’re even talking about. I’m trying to break it down for people to understand, you’re trying to add confusion and speculation.

Everything you’ve posted has been speculation or just plain wrong. You claimed the new calibration changed oil pressure and was causing shudder and misfires. That was that wrong. You inferred that they reinstall the old software when new phasers are installed. That was wrong. You continue to claim phasers are wearing out without making noise, which is entirely speculation with no data to support it.

Now you’re claiming the cavity could be worn and “slow for locking which would be noiseless”? That makes no sense. If the cavity is elongated, the phaser will not be slower to lock. That has nothing to do with it. The phaser will bleed down at the same rate on a cold soak and return to the parked position. On the next cold start, the phaser will rattle as the locking pin moves within that cavity before oil pressure builds.

You’re clearly just looking to stir the pot here, which is not helpful to anyone.

Slow should have been allow* it’s edited was a typo. Your saying the cavity will always have noise with any wear previous to the recall…

 

[smurfslayer]

Maybe the Raptor is not a good fit for you.

 

[Nex]

Your wife likes my raptor…. Maybe you should ask her. The hell outta here with that type of comment.

Keep a man's family out of this. You are telling someone that a comment was out of line by bringing in another member's family into the disagreement. Way out of line.