Prospective Buyer - need some advice

[FordTechOne]

Yes ford says this is the fix for the old phaser design. Hopefully it is for the life of the engine. Knowing there is an updated part that will work on the duty cycle the old phaser would fail on is apparently only a red flag to me. I would just caution the op in my opinion to find a gen 2 built after 11/2019. It would give peace of mind d to know how many old style phasers that were able to receive the update have failed since the update, vs how many of the new phasers have failed. Also a bandaid is a fix for a wound, but how long will it hold. We shall wait and see on the software keeping that locking pin cavity in the old style phasers from elongating.

There’s no data indicating that he revised parts wouldn’t eventually exhibit the same type of failure, just at a much higher mileage/time in service due to the design changes. The new phasers were released before the new calibration, which was the actual root cause. The intake phasers went through 4 part number supersessions/revisions before they actually figured out what was causing the locking mechanism wear. The most robust design in the world will still fail if it’s subjected to a duty cycle it wasn’t intended for.

 

[duff49]

There’s no data indicating that he revised parts wouldn’t eventually exhibit the same type of failure, just at a much higher mileage/time in service due to the design changes. The new phasers were released before the new calibration, which was the actual root cause. The intake phasers went through 4 part number supersessions/revisions before they actually figured out what was causing the locking mechanism wear. The most robust design in the world will still fail if it’s subjected to a duty cycle it wasn’t intended for.

agreed completely, but there is alot of data of very low mileage failures on the old design which is documented. Im just thinking as a potential buyer which op says he is, wouldnt you want a mechanical part that isnt documented for failing under the original duty cycle ford thought the old phaser could handle?

 

[smurfslayer]

agreed completely, but there is alot of data of very low mileage failures on the old design which is documented. Im just thinking as a potential buyer which op says he is, wouldnt you want a mechanical part that isnt documented for failing under the original duty cycle ford thought the old phaser could handle?

Yeah, there is, but what’s missing is the documented non-failures. Nobody jumps on the internet to say ‘I used my Raptor today and didn’t have any problems’. Because that’s the norm.

the cam phaser failure is the exception. Not to minimize those who have fought through it, sometimes with more than one repair, but statistically speaking, out of the entire Raptor and F150 base, it’s not all that. It’s a lot of internet chatter, yes and again not to dis’ any of the FRF who had to get the repairs, just that it’s not everything the internet makes it out to be.

 

[duff49]

Yeah, there is, but what’s missing is the documented non-failures. Nobody jumps on the internet to say ‘I used my Raptor today and didn’t have any problems’. Because that’s the norm.

the cam phaser failure is the exception. Not to minimize those who have fought through it, sometimes with more than one repair, but statistically speaking, out of the entire Raptor and F150 base, it’s not all that. It’s a lot of internet chatter, yes and again not to dis’ any of the FRF who had to get the repairs, just that it’s not everything the internet makes it out to be.

I would like to agree but when you have dealers making tik toks of 5 trucks cold starting with failed phasers and Ford issuing extended warranties prorated its not just a internet buzz. I would agree that there is little to no said claims to any 11/2019 and later builds with the updated phasers on the internet about failures that I can find.

 

[smurfslayer]

you don’t have to agree or disagree. The issue happened, but you just don’t see it as often as the internet is going to make you think.

 

[duff49]

you don’t have to agree or disagree. The issue happened, but you just don’t see it as often as the internet is going to make you think.

Then why would ford create all the effort to satisfy their customers on it?

 

[FordTechOne]

agreed completely, but there is alot of data of very low mileage failures on the old design which is documented. Im just thinking as a potential buyer which op says he is, wouldnt you want a mechanical part that isnt documented for failing under the original duty cycle ford thought the old phaser could handle?

I’m really struggling with what you’re trying to get at here.

The original calibration was the issue. The original calibration was causing the premature wear. The phasers design/manufacturing was never root cause.

Clearly there was an issue between the intended design and the calibration that was released in production. These things happen. The most important part is that the issue was acknowledged through a TSB, corrected in production, addressed via recall, and covered through the extended warranty.

 

[FordTechOne]

Then why would ford create all the effort to satisfy their customers on it?

Umm…why would they not want to satisfy their customers? They acknowledged there was an issue, addressed it, and voluntarily offered extended warranty coverage. Is there something I’m missing here?

For reference, I own a 2019 built in 05/19.

 

[MRV99]

You can go on any manufactures “forums” and find similar horror stories. I am a huge BMW guy and track my M3. I have been through BMW’s since 2002 and there is always something on a particular model which is the “be all end all and never buy” issue until you realize nobody complains if the wheel does not squeak. I know dozens of BMW guys who NEVER experienced a single issue which was the issue on every car.

Remember, 15k-20k Raptors are made every year yet only a few hundred on the forums have issues.

 

[duff49]

I’m really struggling with what you’re trying to get at here.

The original calibration was the issue. The original calibration was causing the premature wear. The phasers design/manufacturing was never root cause.

Clearly there was an issue between the intended design and the calibration that was released in production. These things happen. The most important part is that the issue was acknowledged through a TSB, corrected in production, addressed via recall, and covered through the extended warranty.

Not sure how to make it any clearer my point is there is an updated hardware that’s been out since 11/2019 that hasn’t been an issue. Why would you want the one that had known issues that had to be fixed with software. Do they not reverse the programing back to the original duty cycles when the updated phasers are installed? I know there are still instances where the customer had the recal done before 2/22 and still have had the old phaser style fail. Does ford want you to replace those with the old style phasers in that instance? There is a reason borg Warner fixed the design. Kinda seems silly you wouldn’t agree the new style phasers would be better being a ford tech and saying you haven’t seen them fail. And for everyone saying it’s a small sample size, sure but it still doesn’t negate the fact there is a better part in the later builds. So I will stick with my recommendation to the op.