Prospective Buyer - need some advice

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

duff49

Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Posts
41
Reaction score
5
Location
south carolina
So the new designed phasers are failing as well? I admit I was guessing on the oil pressure being the calibration change (thanks for clearing up what the programming is effecting). My issue is even with the duty cycle being effected why revert back for the updated designed phasers. I find it impossible to believe that only poorly maintained engines were the ones failing with the old design. Just still seems like a bandaid to try and get owners out past the mileage that ford is willing to be involved.
 

FordTechOne

FRF Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2019
Posts
6,672
Reaction score
13,068
Location
Detroit
So the new designed phasers are failing as well? I admit I was guessing on the oil pressure being the calibration change (thanks for clearing up what the programming is effecting). My issue is even with the duty cycle being effected why revert back for the updated designed phasers. I find it impossible to believe that only poorly maintained engines were the ones failing with the old design. Just still seems like a bandaid to try and get owners out past the mileage that ford is willing to be involved.
You’re talking about 2 completely separate issues here. And no, the new phasers are not failing.

The reason for the TSB and subsequent recall (21B10) was cam phaser noise on a cold start due to cam phaser locking pin wear. Ford released a redesigned phaser to prevent the issue, but the root cause of failure on the original parts was ultimately determined to be calibration duty cycle. It was not maintenance related.

The new software (21B10) prevents the issue from developing on the original phasers, which is why it was released as a recall. For phasers that already failed, dealers either perform the TSB to replace them (powertrain warranty) or replace them under the extended warranty coverage 21N03.

21N08 was released after it was found that poorly maintained or engines ran low on oil that had excessive cam journal wear were experiencing VCT shudder after 21B10. 21N08 then reverts the calibration back to it’s original state. It has nothing to do with the phaser part number that is installed.
 

duff49

Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Posts
41
Reaction score
5
Location
south carolina
You’re talking about 2 completely separate issues here. And no, the new phasers are not failing.

The reason for the TSB and subsequent recall (21B10) was cam phaser noise on a cold start due to cam phaser locking pin wear. Ford released a redesigned phaser to prevent the issue, but the root cause of failure on the original parts was ultimately determined to be calibration duty cycle. It was not maintenance related.

The new software (21B10) prevents the issue from developing on the original phasers, which is why it was released as a recall. For phasers that already failed, dealers either perform the TSB to replace them (powertrain warranty) or replace them under the extended warranty coverage 21N03.

21N08 was released after it was found that poorly maintained or engines ran low on oil that had excessive cam journal wear were experiencing VCT shudder after 21B10. 21N08 then reverts the calibration back to it’s original state. It has nothing to do with the phaser part number that is installed.
Makes a lot of sense, it was the reverting back that had me questioning why. It’s still would concern me if I had the old phaser design that programming for the duty cycle would keep the phasers from going bad. I think I would feel alot better knowing the new designed phasers were in the engine and that the original programming would be used. Admittedly not knowing exactly what the outcome of changing the duty cycle would do in the long run other than keeping the phaser from going through as many cycles. Seems like I would want the hardware that could handle it, not the software that would just keep it from elongating that locking pin cavity.
 

Raptorial

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Posts
899
Reaction score
1,559
Location
US
OP: I have a 2020 with 30k and not a single issue. It's been my most reliable vehicle to date. Build quality overall is excellent. Good luck
 

duff49

Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Posts
41
Reaction score
5
Location
south carolina
OP: I have a 2020 with 30k and not a single issue. It's been my most reliable vehicle to date. Build quality overall is excellent. Good luck
Yes I believe vehicles built after 11/2019 all have the updated phasers and have to my knowledge very little to no phaser issues. I also own a 2020 built 1/2020 and have over 45k with not a single issue. I’m just talking my opinion and I know @FordTechOne knows his stuff. Hopefully even if my opinions and theory’s are dead wrong our discussion will help anyone with the same thoughts.
 

Nex

RIP CoronaRaptor
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Posts
8,622
Reaction score
24,760
Location
Washington State
I have a 2018. Ford preformed the 21B10 at my request with no cam phaser issues before the flash or after. I bought the truck with 37k miles, have put on another 10k. The service history doesn't show a cam phaser repair was done and still no noise on cold start. Could it in the future? Sure. But there is a fix.

If OP finds a truck he likes, with the correct options and the price is right, I'd get it. If you plan on upgrading to 3.0s, I wouldn't worry about paying extra for the live valve shocks.
 

duff49

Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Posts
41
Reaction score
5
Location
south carolina
I have a 2018. Ford preformed the 21B10 at my request with no cam phaser issues before the flash or after. I bought the truck with 37k miles, have put on another 10k. The service history doesn't show a cam phaser repair was done and still no noise on cold start. Could it in the future? Sure. But there is a fix.

If OP finds a truck he likes, with the correct options and the price is right, I'd get it. If you plan on upgrading to 3.0s, I wouldn't worry about paying extra for the live valve shocks.
The fix would be to update the phasers correct? That’s awesome to know the programming has kept the old style phasers from failing for you. It would just always be in the back of my mind that I have a software update to keep a mechanical part from failing, when there is a mechanical part that is updated for the issue the software is hoping to keeping from happening. If it keeps it from happening for 90k miles and then the phasers fail then it’s a win for ford for sure.
 

Nex

RIP CoronaRaptor
Joined
Sep 2, 2021
Posts
8,622
Reaction score
24,760
Location
Washington State
The fix would be to update the phasers correct? That’s awesome to know the programming has kept the old style phasers from failing for you. It would just always be in the back of my mind that I have a software update to keep a mechanical part from failing, when there is a mechanical part that is updated for the issue the software is hoping to keeping from happening. If it keeps it from happening for 90k miles and then the phasers fail then it’s a win for ford for sure.

No, I believe the fix is a software update as @FordTechOne stated. The cam phaser is replaced due to a failed part before the fix (software update) has been completed.

But I have been wrong already once today, so who knows.
 

duff49

Member
Joined
May 6, 2021
Posts
41
Reaction score
5
Location
south carolina
No, I believe the fix is a software update as @FordTechOne stated. The cam phaser is replaced due to a failed part before the fix (software update) has been completed.

But I have been wrong already once today, so who knows.
Yes ford says this is the fix for the old phaser design. Hopefully it is for the life of the engine. Knowing there is an updated part that will work on the duty cycle the old phaser would fail on is apparently only a red flag to me. I would just caution the op in my opinion to find a gen 2 built after 11/2019. It would give peace of mind d to know how many old style phasers that were able to receive the update have failed since the update, vs how many of the new phasers have failed. Also a bandaid is a fix for a wound, but how long will it hold. We shall wait and see on the software keeping that locking pin cavity in the old style phasers from elongating.
 

Raptorial

Full Access Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Posts
899
Reaction score
1,559
Location
US
Yes I believe vehicles built after 11/2019 all have the updated phasers and have to my knowledge very little to no phaser issues. I also own a 2020 built 1/2020 and have over 45k with not a single issue. I’m just talking my opinion and I know @FordTechOne knows his stuff. Hopefully even if my opinions and theory’s are dead wrong our discussion will help anyone with the same thoughts.
Agree. My post wasn't directed towards you. Was just answering the question.
 
Top