Love my Raptor - would like more power

[pirate air]

How would you blow the Raptor? Im not trying to say push the engine to its limits, not anywhere near it. But the Roush, while a proven unit in both power and reliablity, has been around for a while and I assume that scharger technology has advanced considerably since it was designed.

How would you blow the Raptor? You mean scatter engine parts across the highway? All kinds of ways. You could encounter pre ignition by advancing the timing to much before TDC which will poke holes in pistons, bend rods and push head gaskets out. Or you could detonate it by running to much boost or to low of octane or to hot of spark plug or to hot of IAT causing holes in pistons, bent rods, blown head gasket. You could over power a rod which would compact and bend it. You could over rev it and stretch the rod breaking the cap bolts, or float the valves and cause them to come into contact with the piston. You could run to much/enough boost to over come the valve spring seat pressure which would cause them to float and come into contact with the piston. You could break the piston ring lands and crowns off due to detonation, pre ignition, heat caused be high combustion temps or lean A/R. You could melt holes in pistons due to high combustion temps. You could twist the snout off the crank spinning the blower. So many ways....

The truck 5.4 3v is NOT built for boost or a bunch of power. Pushing it slightly past its factory rated output IS pushing it to it's limits. It's not over built like the Cobra or Lightning engines that have stronger foundations to support loads more power than the factory output.

 

[BentToast]

How would you blow the Raptor? You mean scatter engine parts across the highway? All kinds of ways. You could encounter pre ignition by advancing the timing to much before TDC which will poke holes in pistons, bend rods and push head gaskets out. Or you could detonate it by running to much boost or to low of octane or to hot of spark plug or to hot of IAT causing holes in pistons, bent rods, blown head gasket. You could over power a rod which would compact and bend it. You could over rev it and stretch the rod breaking the cap bolts, or float the valves and cause them to come into contact with the piston. You could run to much/enough boost to over come the valve spring seat pressure which would cause them to float and come into contact with the piston. You could break the piston ring lands and crowns off due to detonation, pre ignition, heat caused be high combustion temps or lean A/R. You could melt holes in pistons due to high combustion temps. You could twist the snout off the crank spinning the blower. So many ways....

The truck 5.4 3v is NOT built for boost or a bunch of power. Pushing it slightly past its factory rated output IS pushing it to it's limits. It's not over built like the Cobra or Lightning engines that have stronger foundations to support loads more power than the factory output.

That is a frieghtningly detailed set of scenarios, Pirate.

The 5.4 is not built for boost, but it handles boost better than just about any other production N/A engine on the market today. I doubt "slightly past its factory rated output" will do it any damage. I DO NOT RECCOMEND A LOT OF BOOST, or adding forced induction to any engine. But the Lightning, Harley trucks use the same basic engine minus a valve, and even the Ford GT and GT500 motors were based loosely off the Triton.

 

[pirate air]

That is a frieghtningly detailed set of scenarios, Pirate.

The 5.4 is not built for boost, but it handles boost better than just about any other production N/A engine on the market today. I doubt "slightly past its factory rated output" will do it any damage. I DO NOT RECCOMEND A LOT OF BOOST, or adding forced injection to any engine. But the Lightning, Harley trucks use the same basic engine minus a valve, and even the Ford GT and GT500 motors were based loosely off the Triton.

The ONLY things the Lightning, Harley, GT500, GT come close to sharing to the Raptor 3v 5.4 is the engine block and the cubic inch engine size (stroke and bore size). A lot of parts do interchange between them, but from the factory, strength and design of materials making up the rotating assembly's are far different (even between all of them).

I say "slightly past it's factory rated output" because a lot can go wrong when playing hp, and this should be something accounted for when considering your hp goal. Guys over build their engines for this reason. In a perfect world, with a good consistent tune, air density, and fuel quality; with an aware driver, the Raptor 5.4 could reliably support lets say 475 crank hp?? But ***** not perfect. Fuel quality changes, air density changes, tuners can suck, drivers act like idiots pushing things too far, while failing to identify the sound of detonation, even if it bit them in the balls. The Raptor 5.4 was not designed or built for this kind of chaos. It doesn't have the components to give it a big hp safety net. Start leaning on it, even just a little bit, and some minor over looked thing like a bad tank of gas or a really cold January night could leave you on the side of the road with a head gasket pissing coolant.

 

[BentToast]

So dont be an idiot and nothing will break. Thats why most upgrades have some sort of warranty available, do you think they just slap them together, crank up the boost and put them up for sale?

 

[TeamFordRaptor]

I can appreciate ones opinion, but the differences are small between the two engines. You say all these things like the truck wasn't built to last Off-Road. I've seen 2 Raptors get blowers and take just fine (One with 12PSI, the other a show truck with 21PSI). The engines can take it. I've seen it done, as has the other Ford Master Technician. Both of us with Master Cert's and knowledge in this area wouldn't recommend this if we thought it would grenade. As someone who races cars and motorcycles, I wouldn't want someone telling me how to tune something if they knew it wouldn't work or they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm not giving info that sounds good just to have someone go out and blow a motor. It's been done, the engines can take it. Case and point. These guys were also smart enough to have it installed at the dealership so we could test it and tune it accordingly. That's the key, make sure someone knows what they're doing to your truck. I'd say someone who is Master Certified in that area.

 

[BentToast]

I can appreciate ones opinion, but the differences are small between the two engines. You say all these things like the truck wasn't built to last Off-Road. I've seen 2 Raptors get blowers and take just fine (One with 12PSI, the other a show truck with 21PSI). The engines can take it. I've seen it done, as has the other Ford Master Technician. Both of us with Master Cert's and knowledge in this area wouldn't recommend this if we thought it would grenade. As someone who races cars and motorcycles, I wouldn't want someone telling me how to tune something if they knew it wouldn't work or they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm not giving info that sounds good just to have someone go out and blow a motor. It's been done, the engines can take it. Case and point. These guys were also smart enough to have it installed at the dealership so we could test it and tune it accordingly. That's the key, make sure someone knows what they're doing to your truck. I'd say someone who is Master Certified in that area.

Well said!


Who would put 21psi on thier Raptor? I wouldnt even consider more then 8-10 psi without upgrading internals

 

[pirate air]

So dont be an idiot and nothing will break. Thats why most upgrades have some sort of warranty available, do you think they just slap them together, crank up the boost and put them up for sale?

LOL, most racing parts have NO warranty. This would also be why the auto manufacture (in this case Ford) will not warranty your supercharged Raptor in the event of a rod exiting the block. Auto manufactures wouldn't be so **** about after market parts, if the after market parts were so well tested. Many performance companies or shops do slap shit together and produce sub par products just to make a buck.

"So dont be an idiot and nothing will break", you, the driver, is the only variable that you can control. What about the rest?

But, you can do whatever you want. If you wanna pour 40 pounds of boost to your Raptor because someone on the interweb said it was ok, then by all means do it. I don't give a ****.

 

[BentToast]

LOL, most racing parts have NO warranty. This would also be why the auto manufacture (in this case Ford) will not warranty your supercharged Raptor in the event of a rod exiting the block. Auto manufactures wouldn't be so **** about after market parts, if the after market parts were so well tested. Many performance companies or shops do slap shit together and produce sub par products just to make a buck.

"So dont be an idiot and nothing will break", you, the driver, is the only variable that you can control. What about the rest?

But, you can do whatever you want. If you wanna pour 40 pounds of boost to your Raptor because someone on the interweb said it was ok, then by all means do it. I don't give a ****.

I have two Ford Master techs telling me the engine can take it, and you telling me it cant. Who do I listen to? Just for referance,here is something you might find interesting :
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/superchargers/pdf/Edelbrock_Warranty_Form.pdf

I also reccomend you read ALL my posts, where you will see me state "I wouldnt even consider more then 8-10 psi without upgrading internals"

 

[TeamFordRaptor]

I have two Ford Master techs telling me the engine can take it, and you telling me it cant. Who do I listen to? Just for referance,here is something you might find interesting :
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/superchargers/pdf/Edelbrock_Warranty_Form.pdf

I also reccomend you read ALL my posts, where you will see me state "I wouldnt even consider more then 8-10 psi without upgrading internals"

Good reference! I do agree with the upgrading internals if a blower will be on a daily driver, but overall it's good so far. Good read Bent!

 

[pirate air]

I can appreciate ones opinion, but the differences are small between the two engines. You say all these things like the truck wasn't built to last Off-Road. I've seen 2 Raptors get blowers and take just fine (One with 12PSI, the other a show truck with 21PSI). The engines can take it. I've seen it done, as has the other Ford Master Technician. Both of us with Master Cert's and knowledge in this area wouldn't recommend this if we thought it would grenade. As someone who races cars and motorcycles, I wouldn't want someone telling me how to tune something if they knew it wouldn't work or they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm not giving info that sounds good just to have someone go out and blow a motor. It's been done, the engines can take it. Case and point. These guys were also smart enough to have it installed at the dealership so we could test it and tune it accordingly. That's the key, make sure someone knows what they're doing to your truck. I'd say someone who is Master Certified in that area.

Are you a certified automotive technician or a certified car salesmen?

I have two Ford Master techs telling me the engine can take it, and you telling me it cant. Who do I listen to? Just for referance,here is something you might find interesting :
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/superchargers/pdf/Edelbrock_Warranty_Form.pdf

I also reccomend you read ALL my posts, where you will see me state "I wouldnt even consider more then 8-10 psi without upgrading internals"

You do whatever you want Bent.

The Edelbrock thing looks like a typical after market warranty contract, it's just supercharger friendly-er. Still a lot of restrictions. Generally after market companies replace shelled engines with junkyard donors. I would put money towards a built short block before I spent money on an after market warranty that cuts corners every way it can by replacing parts with junkyard pieces.